Same motive = same killer

[Abby Normal]

He grew up living with his mother. And when he left his home, he always lived in close proximity to her, his own daughter staying with Maria Louisa. Then, in June of 1888, a few weeks before the Ripper murders started, he moved away from the surroundings where she lived, and took up lodgings in Doveton Street.

He may have felt that he at long last had escaped from her influence, that´s what I am thinking.

If others say "psychobabble" or "bullshit", that does not change things at all. There is no proving what I suggest, but suggesting it is sound enough to my mind.

Very interesting

[Debra A]

So there was a manhole in the next vault?

Hmmm....I wonder where I read that originally, Rocky. I don't remember it at all! I will have to re-investigate that.

[John Wheat]

As Abby says, there is nothing at all impossible about changing MO.

If your saying that then why not blame the Ripper murders on Chapman? Because he's a proven murderer and better suspect than Lechmere albeit still a crap suspect.

[Fisherman]

If your saying that then why not blame the Ripper murders on Chapman?

Yes! Or Bury!!!

[Abby Normal]

If your saying that then why not blame the Ripper murders on Chapman? Because he's a proven murderer and better suspect than Lechmere albeit still a crap suspect.

Hi John
Yes. For Chapman to be a suspect an even more drastic change in MO between him and the ripper. Actually a more drastic change than the ripper and torsoman.

Compared to bury, Chapman’s change in MO is huge, which is why I got bury ahead of Chapman, and I don’t care what SUgden says. ; )

[drstrange169]

>>Serial killers change their MO all the time. It’s actually quite common, and well known.<<

I agree, they can often be very erratic but, how many serial killers have two very distinct different m.o's.

(Genuine question, I have no idea.)

[drstrange169]

>He grew up living with his mother. And when he left his home, he always lived in close proximity to her, his own daughter staying with Maria Louisa. Then, in June of 1888, a few weeks before the Ripper murders started, he moved away from the surroundings where she lived, and took up lodgings in Doveton Street.<<

But still within comfortable walking distance. Not even the distance my kids live away from me and I still see them on a weekly basis. Isn't there still a family connection via the Cats Meat business?

Also, he, possibly, rented a house owned by his in-laws. So, a very strong family connection there. It would be better theory if he had moved to Liverpool or somewhere.

And, if we are to believe CAL killed Mrs Stride, and Anon. torso, obviously he still hung around the area.

[drstrange169]

Assuming he didn't cut up bodies in front of his mother, wife and children, he would have needed a separate place to do it, that would not necessarily need to change with the family home. After all, he did move away to James Street before Doveton.

[Sam Flynn]

He grew up living with his mother. And when he left his home, he always lived in close proximity to her, his own daughter staying with Maria Louisa.

Did he ever live in Clapham, Wandsworth or Battersea?

[RockySullivan]

Did he ever live in Clapham, Wandsworth or Battersea?

Did the killer kill where he lived though? or was it where he worked? even somewhere abandoned?

[RockySullivan]

I feel the killer must be someone tied to the embankment, perhaps the man in charge of cleaning it? who was the fellow with the broom stick that the pc encountered on pinchin st?

[Fisherman]

>>Serial killers change their MO all the time. It’s actually quite common, and well known.<<

I agree, they can often be very erratic but, how many serial killers have two very distinct different m.o's.

(Genuine question, I have no idea.)

Few, of course. I suggested Kürten as an example, who had the Duesseldorf police convinced they were chasing three different killers, a strangler, a man who stabbed with a pair of scissors and a man who hit his victims over the head with a hammer.

Then again, if we look at the two killers we are comparing now, we really don´t know what their MO:s were in detail. Maybe the Ripper was a man who was infuriated by being approached by prostitutes and took action on that. Maybe he was a planner, who lured women into desolate places and killed them. It seems he either was taken to the murder sites - or chose them himself. We cannot decide what applies on that point, and that will have an influence on how we describe MO.
When talking about the Torso killer, we are even further removed from any certainty about the MO, but we CAN see that this killer may have been somebody who sought out prostitutes and lured them to follow him - just as the Ripper may well have been.
There will probably be some sort of difference inbetween the MO:s, but it need not be large, therefore.

What we know about serial killers is that a good deal of them are opportunists - they grab the opportun ity as it offers itself up. If such a man finds that there are two different methods of procuring victims that work well, then it is a fair guess that he will be willing to use them both.

In any case, I finf that it is a problem that is a lot easier to bridge than the problem of the similarities in how the supposedly two killers cut their victims, how they eviscerated and took away rings, how they seemingly did not apply the run-of-the-mill torture, instead killing quickly in order to access the body, etcetera.

[Fisherman]

>He grew up living with his mother. And when he left his home, he always lived in close proximity to her, his own daughter staying with Maria Louisa. Then, in June of 1888, a few weeks before the Ripper murders started, he moved away from the surroundings where she lived, and took up lodgings in Doveton Street.<<

But still within comfortable walking distance. Not even the distance my kids live away from me and I still see them on a weekly basis. Isn't there still a family connection via the Cats Meat business?

Also, he, possibly, rented a house owned by his in-laws. So, a very strong family connection there. It would be better theory if he had moved to Liverpool or somewhere.

And, if we are to believe CAL killed Mrs Stride, and Anon. torso, obviously he still hung around the area.

Very obviously, he visited the area, but that can easily have a solution that tallies with how he started killing after having moved away from his mother. If this was so, he may have harboured a hatred for his mother, and as he grew more confident, he decided to kill on her doorstep, so to speak.

Overall, the fact that Lechmere had very clear ties to the Berner Street/Pinchin Street area speaks FOR him, not against him, as the killer.

But these are treacherous grounds, and we can only speculate. Plus, any such speculation can be countered by another speculation.

I am pointing to a possibility that offers itself up, and it is anybody´s choice to see a viablity or not.

[Fisherman]

Assuming he didn't cut up bodies in front of his mother, wife and children, he would have needed a separate place to do it, that would not necessarily need to change with the family home. After all, he did move away to James Street before Doveton.

Problem: We don´t know where it was. Maybe it was far removed from where he lived, and provided a place where he didn´t feel pressurised by hos mother/family. And then, when he moved to Doveton Street, he felt he could add street killings too.

It is always gonna be a lot of "may´s" and "could have´s" here, so we will not be able to decide whether our respective thinking is correct or not. And that was not why I made my original suggestion.

[Fisherman]

Did he ever live in Clapham, Wandsworth or Battersea?

That question is irrelevant until we know why he dumped where he did. Did Ted Bundy live on Taylor Mountain...?