Same motive = same killer

[Sam Flynn]

How about the fact that flesh WAS cut away?

Perhaps Jackson's baby piqued the killer's curiosity. Maybe he was the father.

[Abby Normal]

Not really, Abby, because - as I said earlier - there are only so many practicable ways for a layman to cut away abdominal flesh. For that reason, I don't see the cutting of flaps, slabs or strips of flesh as a useful diagnostic criterion.

Ok thanks Sam
I guess were at the end of the road on this one then!

[Fisherman]

No, because the removal of teeth would be decidedly weird.

Dismemberment murders have been associated with the cutting open of the abdomen and the removal of organs, and usually for very practical reasons (Gein, Nilsen, Dahmer). With dismemberment murders, therefore, it appears that the opening of the abdomen and the removal of the organs needn't be an end in itself.

How about the removal of the buttocks then? If you don´t think it is weird to remove the abdominal wall, that is to say...

There is also another parameter to weigh in. Even if YOU think it makes all the sense in the world to take away the abdominal wall, whereas it seems to YOU that taking out teeth is decidedly weird, this actually is not what the matter hinges on.

Because if it emerges that IN SPITE of how you think it is weird to take out teeth, it happens, whereas IN SPITE of how you think it a commonplace thing to do to ut away the abdominal walls, that NEVER happens, then we are faced with how the latter thing is LESS likely to happen.

You see, Gareth, we should never leave these matters to your perception of reality. That would be a very daft thing to do in my opinion. And my guess is that if anything, a cut away abdominal wall is less common than pulled out teeth.

Gein, Nielsen, Dahmer - who of these men removed the abdominal wall from their victims, Gareth?

[Fisherman]

Perhaps Jackson's baby piqued the killer's curiosity. Maybe he was the father.

That does not even begin to touch on what the matter was here: Why would we look away from the fact that taking away the abdomen in flaps is extremely uncommon?

[Fisherman]

As an aside, Gareth - you DO realize that your take on things is bound for the grave, don´t you? And that the idea that there was just the one killer is gaining momentum as we speak?

Tomorrow was always gonna be another day.

[Sam Flynn]

And that the idea that there was just the one killer is gaining momentum as we speak?

No chance. We're dealing with at least two different killers; one living in the East End, the other somewhere around the Clapham/Battersea area. Never mind the differences between what happened to the victims - the geographical distribution of the dump-sites alone speaks volumes.

[Fisherman]

No chance. We're dealing with at least two different killers; one living in the East End, the other somewhere around the Clapham/Battersea area. Never mind the differences between what happened to the victims - the geographical distribution of the dump-sites alone speaks volumes.

Well, if you are not able to keep track of one thing, then why would you be able to do so of the other one?

It all makes sense.

It´s touching to hear you say "no chance", though.

[Sam Flynn]

That does not even begin to touch on what the matter was here: Why would we look away from the fact that taking away the abdomen in flaps is extremely uncommon?

None of the torso victims had their abdomen removed. Kelly did, and nothing in the torso series gets anywhere near what happened to Kelly.

[Sam Flynn]

Gein, Nielsen, Dahmer - who of these men removed the abdominal wall from their victims, Gareth?

Dahmer certainly did.

Anyway, the point is that these men - and people like them - wanted to remove the abdominal organs for various reasons, and they could have gained access to them only in a limited number of practicable ways. A single, long incision is one approach; cutting out panels/flaps/strips of flesh is another. There's nothing remarkable if two separate murderers happen upon similar approaches to accessing the abdominal viscera.

Flaps, schmaps.

[Fisherman]

None of the torso victims had their abdomen removed. Kelly did, and nothing in the torso series gets anywhere near what happened to Kelly.

When are you going to get a grip? When are you going to stop peddling your view as if it was a fact?

What happened to Kelly on the whole is OUTSIDE of this discussion. The ONLY parameter we use in this discussion is the removal - fully or partly - of abdominal walls. And you have absolutely NO idea how much of the abdominal wall was removed from Jackson. It frustrates you, I know, but that´s the way it is: You know not a iot about how large a part of Jacksons abdominal wall was removed. We only know that two LARGE and LONG parts of it was removed, and they could together easily make up 75 per cent of the abdominal wall. COULD, I say - since I am not given to your kind of factifying ideas.

It therefore applies that the removal of the abdominal wall of Jackson - I am not saying TOTAL removal, because, you lnow, I am not given to... und so weiter - may very well come not only anywhere near but also possibly VERY near what happened to Kelly IN THIS PARTICULAR ELEMENT.

You are actually polluting the thread with very misleading statements, Gareth. I don´t know what it is I bring out in you, but it sure isn´t flattering for you.

Now, if you want to make yourself REALLY useful, go find another case where a killer cut away the abdominal wall from his victim. Just the one will do. Or find an instance in criminal history where two eviscerators roamed the streets of the exact same town simultaneously.

Then again, you do not have any wish at all to make yourself useful, do you?

This debate is quickly descending down the same ladder anchored in hell that the debate a bout Lawson Tait was pushed down. I will gladly answer intelligible or factual reasoning, but I have no wish to engage in any further horseshit throwing. It is up to you what happens next.

[Fisherman]

Dahmer certainly did.

Anyway, the point is that these men - and people like them - wanted to remove the abdominal organs for various reasons, and they could have gained access to them only in a limited number of practicable ways. A single, long incision is one approach; cutting out panels/flaps/strips of flesh is another. There's nothing remarkable if two separate murderers happen upon similar approaches to accessing the abdominal viscera.

Flaps, schmaps.

Dear me. Are you now saying that how Dahmer opened up his victims abdomens EQUALS cutting the abdominal flesh away in flaps? Is that it? If so, you just disqualified yourself from posting any further view with a hope of being taken seriously.

[Sam Flynn]

When are you going to get a grip? When are you going to stop peddling your view as if it was a fact?.

Don't you dare falsely accuse me of presenting imagination as fact.

Kelly had her ENTIRE abdomen laid open, for Christ's sake. That did not happen in the torso cases, nor in any of the other Ripper murders, for that matter.

Now, if you want to make yourself REALLY useful, go find another case where a killer cut away the abdomonal wall from his victim.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrggghhhhhhhhh hhhhhh!

You just don't f*king get it, do you?

Enough's enough.

[Sam Flynn]

Dear me. Are you now saying that how Dahmer opened up his victims abdomens EQUALS cutting the abdominal flesh away in flaps?

He might, he might not, but that's beside the point.

THE FLAPS ARE NOT IMPORTANT, because there's only LIMITED WAYS a layman is going to open up an abdomen in order to access the contents.

How many f*king times do I have to say that?

Is that it? If so, you just disqualified yourself from posting any further view with a hope of being taken seriously.

Think before you gloat.

[RockySullivan]

I see you've even coined a new nickname for your expanded series, one that is essentially your argument here.

Just for the record, i used it here

I think LISK studied the Ripper/Torso murders 04-11-2014, 08:26 PM
RockySullivan
Chief Inspector
*

and i'm sure it's been used earlier on here. I just hate to see surstromming get credit

[Abby Normal]

Just for the record, i used it here
and i'm sure it's been used earlier on here. I just hate to see surstromming get credit

ive been going with TorsoRipper