Same motive = same killer

[Fisherman]

You cannot prove that the throat cutting was the cause of death, when it could easily have been part of the dismemberment process long after death.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

That is as correct as it can be. And that is also why I have never said so, and indeed would never say so either.

There are, though, two points to keep in mind here:

1. Just as it cannot be proved that the necks were cut long before the decapitation, it cannot be proved that they were not either. Therefore, it cannot be ruled out that the wounds to the necks were produced in the same manner and for the same reason as in the Ripper series.

2. The medicos actually suggested that the neck wounds was a probable cause of death.

I am not suggesting anything that is impossible or in conflict with the facts, Trevor. What I am suggesting is instead perfectly in line with the existing evidence.

[Sam Flynn]

As Dr Biggs states there are only so many ways you can cut up a body by reason of the body itself and its structure

Quite so.

I think you have admirably shown the flaws in the rest of what he suggests are similarities so i wont duplicate

Thanks, Trevor.

[Sam Flynn]

The Ripper victims' THROATS were cut, Fish.

[Fisherman]

The Ripper victims' THROATS were cut, Fish.

ANd their necks, yes.

I know that.

Are you embarking on a crusade to write that it was the throats that were cut whenever I write that the necks were cut?

Would it not be better to realize that the torso victims´ throats (and necks) were also cut, so that we may agree on how there is no demonstrable difference in that respect?

The torso victims were also decapitated, but we don´t know where in the process this happened. It may be that they were cut like the Ripper victims first, and only later decapitated. It may be that they were decapitated and had their necks and throats severed in an unbroken sequence.

All we can say with certainty is that they had their necks severed. And their throats. Although Bond chose "necks" instead of "throats".

Once more, we should not say that there must have been a difference inbetween the victims of the series, apart from the severing of the spine in the torso series. It would be potentially misleading to do so, since it would obscure how it may have been the same thing in both series.

But hey, you have unanswered questions to tend to. How about Hebbert, honesty and objectivity? Or shall we let that "slip"?

[Fisherman]

Trevor Marriott:
As Dr Biggs states there are only so many ways you can cut up a body by reason of the body itself and its structure

Sam Flynn:
Quite so.

There are only so many ways that offer themselves up readily on account of the body and it´s structure.
However, that is not the same as it being impossible to cut a body up in myriads of different ways. Indeed, many of the cuts the Torso killer applied did NOT belong to the ones that offer themselves up readily.

So gentlemen, not only have you got the point of cutting possibilities wrong, you have also missed out on the relevance for the case.

Good job, you two! :

[Fisherman]

The similarities fish seeks to rely on are not similarities in the true sense pointing to a specific MO.
www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Okay, let´s see here, what did these two killers do?

The Ripper killed women, involving severed necks, he cut abdomens open and he took out organs sometimes, plus he cut away a nosetip and part of a buttock in one case. And cut away abdominal walls in flaps. Oh, and he took away the rings from a victims´fingers.

And the Torso murderer killed women, involving severed necks, he cut abdomens open and he took out organs sometimes, plus he cut away a nosetip and part of a buttock in one case. And cut away an abdominal wall in flaps. Oh, and he took away the rings from a victims´fingers.

So you are probably correct, Trevor, as always: these matters are obviously not true similarities. It´s a good thing that we have a man of your calibre to sort that out for us, because being the simple soul that I am, I could have sworn that it looks like the exact same thing to me in both cases.

[Trevor Marriott]

Okay, let´s see here, what did these two killers do?

The Ripper killed women, involving severed necks, he cut abdomens open and he took out organs sometimes, plus he cut away a nosetip and part of a buttock in one case. And cut away abdominal walls in flaps. Oh, and he took away the rings from a victims´fingers.

And the Torso murderer killed women, involving severed necks, he cut abdomens open and he took out organs sometimes, plus he cut away
nosetip and part of a buttock in one case. And cut away an abdominal wall in flaps. Oh, and he took away the rings from a victims´fingers.

So you are probably correct, Trevor, as always: these matters are obviously not true similarities. It´s a good thing that we have a man of your calibre to sort that out for us, because being the simple soul that I am, I could have sworn that it looks like the exact same thing to me in both cases.

Incidentally, I now have a reply from Dr Biggs regarding the questions both you and Debs asked me to put to him, which I will post later this evening.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

Incidentally, I now have a reply from Dr Biggs regarding the questions both you and Debs asked me to put to him, which I will post later this evening.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Thanks, Trevor. I will try and get back later to read the answer.

[Fisherman]

Incidentally, I now have a reply from Dr Biggs regarding the questions both you and Debs asked me to put to him, which I will post later this evening.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

That should be interesting. Why not post it right away, though?

[barnflatwyngarde]

That should be interesting. Why not post it right away, though?

Let the poor man have a cup of tea!

[Trevor Marriott]

Thanks, Trevor. I will try and get back later to read the answer.

Check your E mail !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

That should be interesting. Why not post it right away, though?

Unlike you, who can sit here all day, every day I still have a life

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Varqm]

The torso killer demonstrated skill in cutting the joints, whereas the Ripper never showed that kind of skill. However, Phillips was adamant that the killer of Chapman was highly skilled, and he also said that the mode of cutting inbetween Kelly and the Pinchin Street torso was very similar.

There were far too many similarities and far too unusual ones to be coincidences. It is self-evident, and that is all there is to it.

Banging on about how you personally think it had nothing to do with mindsets only adds to the heap of personal interpretations that impress me very little. Or not at all, to be frank.

-- Only the differences in skill is relevant,skill could have been observed by Hebbert looking at the body parts and cuts, but the mindsets could not have been observed so this was an "intelligent guess" by Hebbert and must be put aside.Don't you agree with Hebbert that the skill set between the ripper and torso killer were different?

[Varqm]

hi Varqm
the killers of both series were never identified so no one knows if the similarities are coincidences are not. what we do know, however, is that there were similarities.

Differences too as you mention, but even though (most)the ripper murders were in public, he was also "discreet" enough not to get busted.

"he changed?" he could have, if his usual chop shop was not available, but the urge is still there, and forced to kill on the streets.

and in terms of capture/luring MO both were probably similar in that a ruse was used to get the victims to a secluded place.

Yes but in the torso the killer was careful not to get caught and was "consistent" with the way he/she operated.The ripper was open.To me the difference is huge that this was 2 different killers.I do not believe in the chop
shop was not available or thrill because he/she was consistent with it during the whole torso series.We have to agree to disagree.

[Fisherman]

Let the poor man have a cup of tea!

Well... okay. But just a quick one. No scones.

I´m curious here.