Same motive = same killer

[Fisherman]

Different perpetrators, I'd suggest.

Different perpetrators? But Jackson had parts BOTH thrown into the Thames and placed in the garden of Shelleys ancestor. And other parts he placed in Battersea Park.

Did two men kill half of Jackson each?

[Fisherman]

Fisherman, does weighing body parts down with weights or stone actually work? I think parts were packaged not to attract attention but go unnoticed. The Whitehall workers thought the torso was just a ham. Spreading the parts apart was done so the victims weren't identified and traced back to him. That's my take on it

Yes, it works to weigh body parts down. Over here, we are right now having a fascinating case where a Danish inventor seems to have killed and dismembered a Swedish woman on board his submarine (!), whereafter he threw the parts in the sea. The torso floated up, with marks of iron bars on it. The bars had apparently come loose, and the torso came afloat, some four weeks after the murder.

The police then engaged dogs trained to scent corpses in the search, and they were brought onto boats. They reacted at a place and when the police had done their homework on the currents, divers found the head and legs, packen in bags with iron bars inside and sunk to the bottom of the sea. So yes, it works eminently.

[Sam Flynn]

I'm talking about parts that were found, Gareth.

Specifically, those parts that happened to be found. As to the rest, who knows. Chances are that a lot of them were just washed away into the sea or lie buried in the mud on a bank of the Thames to this day.

[RockySullivan]

Yes, it works to weigh body parts down. Over here, we are right now having a fascinating case where a Danish inventor seems to have killed and dismembered a Swedish woman on board his submarine (!), whereafter he threw the parts in the sea. The torso floated up, with marks of iron bars on it. The bars had apparently come loose, and the torso came afloat, some four weeks after the murder.

The police then engaged dogs trained to scent corpses in the search, and they were brought onto boats. They reacted at a place and when the police had done their homework on the currents, divers found the head and legs, packen in bags with iron bars inside and sunk to the bottom of the sea. So yes, it works eminently.

Exactly, so it doesn't work.

[Fisherman]

Exactly, so it doesn't work.

I think you may need to expand on that - WHAT does not work? Weighing down bodies to make them disappear works quite well. There were no search dogs of this calibre back in 1888. Plus the arms of the woman I wrote about have not yeat been retrieved.

[Fisherman]

Specifically, those parts that happened to be found. As to the rest, who knows. Chances are that a lot of them were just washed away into the sea or lie buried in the mud on a bank of the Thames to this day.

"Happened"? Unless you make your way to the nearest police station and deliver the parts there, you MUST rely on people "happening" to find them. There is nothing much else you can do.
But you can produce circumstances that guarantee that the parts will be found, and you can produce circumstances that guarantee that they will not be.

How you go about that matter is what tells the torso killer very much apart from the normal dismemberer and dumper.

[Debra A]

Thanks that would explain it. Is it positive this is the correct quote?

This is part of Hebbert's 1888 published description, Rocky:

Trunk of a female, both breasts present, comprising upper part of thorax and upper part of abdomen, head having been separated at 6th cervical vertebra, pelvis and lower part of the abdomen and at the 4th lumbar vertebra.
Heart, lungs (right one adherent to the chest wall by old adhesions) liver, spleen and kidneys present.small intestine with mesentery are in situ, a few remains of the transverse ascending and descending parts of the colon but lower parts absent as well as the pelvic viscera.

[RockySullivan]

I think you may need to expand on that - WHAT does not work? Weighing down bodies to make them disappear works quite well. There were no search dogs of this calibre back in 1888. Plus the arms of the woman I wrote about have not yeat been retrieved.

They turn up sooner or later. The case you cited is a good example of why it's a bad idea, one part floated up and led to the discovery of the others. That's why it's better to spread remains apart. Think of the logistics as well if he's not dumping from a boat. And this way the tide works to his advantage.

[Fisherman]

They turn up sooner or later. The case you cited is a good example of why it's a bad idea, one part floated up and led to the discovery of the others. That's why it's better to spread remains apart. Think of the logistics as well if he's not dumping from a boat. And this way the tide works to his advantage.

With the job proper done, the parts will not come up. And the floating power of the parts is shortlived. My contention is that most bodies that have been weighted dwon and dumped are never found.
But it is obvious that the torso killer did spread the parts a whole deal!

[RockySullivan]

This is part of Hebbert's 1888 published description, Rocky:

Trunk of a female, both breasts present, comprising upper part of thorax and upper part of abdomen, head having been separated at 6th cervical vertebra, pelvis and lower part of the abdomen and at the 4th lumbar vertebra.
Heart, lungs (right one adherent to the chest wall by old adhesions) liver, spleen and kidneys present.small intestine with mesentery are in situ, a few remains of the transverse ascending and descending parts of the colon but lower parts absent as well as the pelvic viscera.

Thanks Debs so the uterus does not extend above the 4th lumbar vertebra is that correct? Apparently I have always incorrectly been of the understanding that the uterus was removed from the Whitehall victim.

[Sam Flynn]

small intestine with mesentery are in situ.

Not Jack's thing at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Fisherman]

As an aside, if we could prove that the uterus of the Whitehall victim was taken away by the killer, it would only tell us what we already know. He did so with Jackson, that´s a proven thing.

[jerryd]

Specifically, those parts that happened to be found. As to the rest, who knows. Chances are that a lot of them were just washed away into the sea or lie buried in the mud on a bank of the Thames to this day.

Do you feel the Pinchin torso "happened" to be found?

[Sam Flynn]

Do you feel the Pinchin torso "happened" to be found?

I was talking about body parts that were dumped in water.

[Fisherman]

Not Jack's thing at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Jack did different things to different victims, just like the torso killer did to his victims. The shared identity does not lie in that rather self-explanatory fact, but instead in the fact that they BOTH did the exact same things to many of their repsective victims, things that are rare, peculiar and quite special.

It does not matter that there are differences. If we were to demand the exact same thing whenever a serialist kills, there would be no serialists - other than in the reality we would have overseen.