Same motive = same killer

[Abby Normal]

Presumably the torso killer(s) didn't have to worry too much about carrying knives about with them. Because it's almost certain that the dismemberment occurred under cover, it's likely that the TK(s) stashed their implements of choice in their "workshop" (house, shed, whatever).

his chop shop

[Fisherman]

great post fish

how many of the torsos had a vertical cut to their abdomen?

Rainham, Jackson, Pinchin Street - and according to Trow (so a warning must be included), the 1873 victim had the upper torso divided by a cut running from one side of the neck down to the umbillicus.

[Fisherman]

Presumably the torso killer(s) didn't have to worry too much about carrying knives about with them. Because it's almost certain that the dismemberment occurred under cover, it's likely that the TK(s) stashed their implements of choice in their "workshop" (house, shed, whatever).

Yes, that is quite likely. But the fact of the matter is that we know that the Ripper carried a weapon and we donīt know that the Torso killer did.

Since I favour the idea that they were one and the same, I of course THINK that they both (well...) carried a knife, but strictly legally speaking, we only know that the Ripper did.

[Abby Normal]

Rainham, Jackson, Pinchin Street - and according to Trow (so a warning must be included), the 1873 victim had the upper torso divided by a cut running from one side of the neck down to the umbillicus.

thanks Fish!
not sure how a vertical cut to to the abdomen, especially one that starts in the upper area, helps facilitate dismemberment. of course this is another similarity to the ripper murders.

[Fisherman]

thanks Fish!
not sure how a vertical cut to to the abdomen, especially one that starts in the upper area, helps facilitate dismemberment. of course this is another similarity to the ripper murders.

It doesnīt help dismemberment at all. It is only if you reason that the plucking out of organs is part of the dismemberment that you may reason along those lines. And of course, what you do then is to disguise the obvious mutilation and evisceration and call it part of a dismemberment instead.

[jerryd]

The Whitehall victim was killed not long after Annie Chapman, the first in the series to lose her uterus. Perhaps the Torso killer did this to to deflect suspicion onto the Whitechapel murderer. But that wouldn't explain why it never happened again, assuming the Torsos were carried out by the same person.

Actually, according to the doctors, her death was more towards the later part of August or first part of September. I personally feel it was nearer to Annie Chapman's murder on September 8th, if not the same day. But I am no doctor and I wasn't there.

Also, thanks for re-kindling the Whitehall "prediction". The story sounds hauntingly familiar to John Arnold's Backchurch Lane story.

[jerryd]

Very Interesting Jerry
could I ask you a huge favor? could you do a single post where you do one section with BOW connection for torsos and then a section with BOW connection for ripper all in one post so we can have both all together in one place/post??

also-is there any connection for your torso suspect wildbore and the ripper series?

fyi-I like your pissed off at BOW possibility for where torsos were left. Ive always felt there is some significance to dumping/displaying sites for torso man other than random just to get rid of or hide.

Sure Abby,

I am off to work so it will be later today or tomorrow before I get to it.

[Fisherman]

Actually, according to the doctors, her death was more towards the later part of August or first part of September. I personally feel it was nearer to Annie Chapman's murder on September 8th, if not the same day. But I am no doctor and I wasn't there.

Also, thanks for re-kindling the Whitehall "prediction". The story sounds hauntingly familiar to John Arnold's Backchurch Lane story.

I dread to mention it, but what is the likelihood of two such "predictions" coming true some little time after they were supposed to...? In the same town and time, once again? Itīs the strangest thing.

[Harry D]

Thanks harry!
is there any case where a murder was predicted in the ripper series?

Hello Abby,

Nothing springs to mind. Closest thing I can think of is the letter sent to the Ipswich Journal a week before MJK's murder. It threatened a murder in Yarmouth but it was addressed from 14 Dorset Street, Spitalfields, which was a stone's throw from Miller's Court (and supposedly Caroline Maxwell lived there).

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=15280

[Abby Normal]

I dread to mention it, but what is the likelihood of two such "predictions" coming true some little time after they were supposed to...? In the same town and time, once again? Itīs the strangest thing.

HI Fish and Jerry

what victim was it for the backcurch/john Arnold prediction? ripper or torso?

[Joshua Rogan]

what victim was it for the backcurch/john Arnold prediction? ripper or torso?

That was the Pinchin Street Torso, Abby.

[Abby Normal]

That was the Pinchin Street Torso, Abby.

thanks JR

[curious]

so again if this really happened I think it was torso man.

Ive been into the ONS case and he actually called the cops ahead of time and said he was going to strike on "watts avenue tonight". they took the call seriously staked out the street and sure enough in the middle of the night they see a masked man on a bike (the ONS was known to use a bike) gave chase but got away.

Bout had to have been, didn't it?

Amazing.

[curious]

It does not matter how much you try to bend and twist things, Curious. If it can be proven that a person carried a knife, it involves a possible premeditation. If the person cannot be proven to have carried a knife, that implication goes away. The punishment will follow accordingly in a court of law.

So we need to differ on this point. And on another one: I donīthink it has been fun at all. I rarely do when I am accused of misrepresenting a question of people who are the actual misrepresenters themselves.

Bless your heart, Fisherman. And I mean that sincerely.

curious

[curious]

Hello Abby,

Nothing springs to mind. Closest thing I can think of is the letter sent to the Ipswich Journal a week before MJK's murder. It threatened a murder in Yarmouth but it was addressed from 14 Dorset Street, Spitalfields, which was a stone's throw from Miller's Court (and supposedly Caroline Maxwell lived there).

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=15280

What is the order -- in time -- of the letter and predictions. Which came first?