Same motive = same killer

[John Wheat]

Lots of possible reasons but the obvious one is mental deterioration

That doesn't stack up at all.

[John Wheat]

yup. or circumstances, or wanting to up the thrill factor

But why if he for example suddenly didn't have an indoor place to kill would he kill with such small gaps in between outdoors?

[Fisherman]

Which of course is what I have implied
Steve

... by saying "However I said so many times I do not think the other similarities are significant at all."

Maybe we are just so radically different in our approaches to Ripperology that we are unable to see that there is a lot of sense hidden under the rash/sluggish surface...?

If you have implied that you think it is odd in the extreme that the elements I listed are present in the three cases I name, then that is progress indeed.

What do you want in exchange?

[Fisherman]

now if torsoman and ripper were the same the ripper series weren't thrown in the river because he was killing on the street so couldn't dismember or throw in the river.
Hi Abby This is one of the reasons i have doubts about all the torso, if any are the work of Jack. Why change from an organized killer who took time to cut up his victims and discard the parts in different areas stretching miles apart without any witnesses over a period of time to then become a frenzied killer who murdered his victims in a short space of time in a very localized area, almost being interrupted in some of the killings to then go back to the MO he once had.
Also the lack of human heads in the cases {torso] indicates, possibly that he was trying to conceal the victims ID in case they where traced back to him. Note the Black Dahlia was cut in half but her head was still on the body with a grotesque grin if i am not mistaken which the killer had done. Why not to any of the Torso victims, Eddowes face seems to have been posed and perhaps Kellys as well. Lastly this is what the FBI profile says - As shown by the HITS analysis, the signature characteristics observed in the murders of
Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, and Kelly are extremely rare. At the center
of Jack the Ripper’s signature was the display of control over the victim through the use
of a knife to penetrate the victims’ bodies and desecrate their sexual regions. Five of the
six victims were stabbed repeatedly in the genital area. Stabbing and cutting wounds are
relatively common in murders, but trauma to the genital area is extremely rare—in less
than one tenth of one per cent of all murder cases in the HITS system.
And this is what Swanson said about Pinchin St - "absence of attack on genitals as in series of Whitechapel murders." Also FBI - The trunk was full of blood indicating that a hemorrhage
had not occurred. This also indicated that the throat could not have been cut. Finally Whitehall, Dr Bond - In connection with the heart there were indications that convinced me that the woman did not die of suffocation or drowning.
I know manual strangulation before Jack cut the throat of his victims as never been proved, but i feel that's how he subdued his victims. No throat cut Pinchin, no strangulation Whitehall hmm.

A/ What makes you think that the Torso killer was organized but the Ripper not?

B/ A killer who wants to conceal the ID of his dismemebered victims will not "post" a face to the police. Nor will he dump his body parts in a manner that ensured they are floating, victim after victim, regardless of how it is the talk of the town. Nor will he dump the parts in the western parts of London, ensuring that they will be parade through the largest metropolis in the world. Nor will he place a torso in the cellar vaults of Scotland Yard. In my view, far from concealing anything, this killer CRAVED recognition. And if he moved on to the Ripper series, then he got just that.
I warn against the old notion of the Torso killer being into hiding what he did. If that was his aim, he would have put the parts in a sack together with a large stone, tied it up and sunk it into oblivion.

C/ You say the signature elements of the Ripper killings are extremely rare. They are! But what were they - and how did they differ from the Torso signatures?

D/ The throat and neck of the Pinchin Street woman was definitely cut. And it was cut before the dismemberment of the legs, as indicated by how the cut surfaces of the legs were much fresher. If I remember correctly, that is! A body will only take leave of whatever blood is below the cut surface. If somebody is tied to a pole, standing up, and decapitated, then a lot of blood will stay in the body. Not that I am saying it happened in our case, necessarily.

[Elamarna]

... by saying "However I said so many times I do not think the other similarities are significant at all."

Maybe we are just so radically different in our approaches to Ripperology that we are unable to see that there is a lot of sense hidden under the rash/sluggish surface...?

If you have implied that you think it is odd in the extreme that the elements I listed are present in the three cases I name, then that is progress indeed.

What do you want in exchange?

Maybe you are correct there Christer, our approach is so fundamentally different that we do not see what the other says at times.

Odd is not the word I would use regarding the "elements" I would say they display a degree of interest that requires noting and further investigation.

What do I want? Nothing just to try an reach the truth, which I fear may not be that easy.


Steve

[Fisherman]

Maybe you are correct there Christer, our approach is so fundamentally different that we do not see what the other says at times.

Odd is not the word I would use regarding the "elements" I would say they display a degree of interest that requires noting and further investigation.

What do I want? Nothing just to try an reach the truth, which I fear may not be that easy.


Steve

Being rash, I think we have reached it already. "Already" being a slack term given it took 130 years...

[Joshua Rogan]

D/ The throat and neck of the Pinchin Street woman was definitely cut. And it was cut before the dismemberment of the legs, as indicated by how the cut surfaces of the legs were much fresher. If I remember correctly, that is!

Other way around, according to the doctors. The thigh cuts were almost dry, whereas the neck had bled a little.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Fish i feel that torso [ if it indeed was all one man ] was clever enough to lure his victims back to his safe place before cutting the bodies up and leaving the parts in various places [ harder than it sounds ]without leaving a trace of himself or at his bolthole.
If Torso did crave recognition why where any of the heads never found. Seems to me like a direct attempt to conceal identity, he possibly took the body parts out bit by bit and left them at various places to try and confuse the Police. As for the other parts i am no medical man i am just going off what the FBI, Bond and Swanson say. Pinchin no attack on Genitalia and no throat slitting, and Whitehall, no suffocation.

[Fisherman]

Other way around, according to the doctors. The thigh cuts were almost dry, whereas the neck had bled a little.

Okidoki - I had a feeling I could get that wrong. It seems it clinches that this victim did not die from having her neck cut!

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish i feel that torso [ if it indeed was all one man ] was clever enough to lure his victims back to his safe place before cutting the bodies up and leaving the parts in various places [ harder than it sounds ]without leaving a trace of himself or at his bolthole.
If Torso did crave recognition why where any of the heads never found. Seems to me like a direct attempt to conceal identity, he possibly took the body parts out bit by bit and left them at various places to try and confuse the Police. As for the other parts i am no medical man i am just going off what the FBI, Bond and Swanson say. Pinchin no attack on Genitalia and no throat slitting, and Whitehall, no suffocation.

I think it is perhaps easier to get attention without the head than with it, actually. It´s kind of more sensation stuff in my world.

I se no reason why the killer could not have used the exact same ruse to procure his victims regardless of the series. The idea that the torso killer was cool and composed and careful is our own invention. We don´t know.

[Elamarna]

Being rash, I think we have reached it already. "Already" being a slack term given it took 130 years...

There you go again Rash Mr Holmgren , I am not convinced

Have a good evening

Steve

[Sam Flynn]

If Torso did crave recognition why where any of the heads never found. Seems to me like a direct attempt to conceal identity.

I agree. I often wonder whether the perpetrator(s) hadn't been in some kind of relationship with these women, and felt compelled to bump them off and dispose of their anonymised remains.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Could we have a case of backstreet abortionists, failed doctors/surgeons operating on the poor, people dying and not being able to afford burials and men dissecting corpses for ‘medical’ research. All being served by a ‘go to’ man who made his living disposing of the bodies by dismembering them?

Is it impossible

[Fisherman]

Could we have a case of backstreet abortionists, failed doctors/surgeons operating on the poor, people dying and not being able to afford burials and men dissecting corpses for ‘medical’ research. All being served by a ‘go to’ man who made his living disposing of the bodies by dismembering them?

Is it impossible

No. And no.

[Fisherman]

There you go again Rash Mr Holmgren , I am not convinced

Have a good evening

Steve

"Again"? I never left off.