Same motive = same killer

[jerryd]

I'm quite suspicious of the two workers who were there on their day off. However, I do feel that the Whitehall was vault was chosen because of it's proximity to the embankment.

Rocky,

The men working on the foundation of the vault worked on Saturday. Earnest Edge stated he began to look for the hammer to nail the locker shut at 20 minutes to five on Saturday evening. So it wasn't a day off for all the men. But...there was one man that stated he was not working on Saturday. Guess who?

[RockySullivan]

Rocky,

The men working on the foundation of the vault worked on Saturday. Earnest Edge stated he began to look for the hammer to nail the locker shut at 20 minutes to five on Saturday evening. So it wasn't a day off for all the men. But...there was one man that stated he was not working on Saturday. Guess who?

hm so you think the story takes place during a workday at the site? that's kind of strange. is it an error and the story was a sunday? say that fred w was the man in the story, it still involved another worker right?

[jerryd]

hm so you think the story takes place during a workday at the site? that's kind of strange. is it an error and the story was a sunday? say that fred w was the man in the story, it still involved another worker right?

To me it sounds like there were three men; two waited outside the gate with the barrow and one climbed over to open the gate. If they were site workers they would have known the string trick and no need to climb the gate. The police seemed satisfied after inquiry that they were not involved in dumping a torso.

[RockySullivan]

To me it sounds like there were three men; two waited outside the gate with the barrow and one climbed over to open the gate. If they were site workers they would have known the string trick and no need to climb the gate. The police seemed satisfied after inquiry that they were not involved in dumping a torso.

jerry then is there two different accounts of sightings at Whitehall? one involving these 3 and one involving a worker? otherwise I am confused

[jerryd]

jerry then is there two different accounts of sightings at Whitehall? one involving these 3 and one involving a worker? otherwise I am confused

There is more than one newspaper account, if that's what you mean.

Evening News:

The information from a person at Llanelly, South Wales, to the effect that on Saturday before the discovery at Whitehall he saw a man climb the railings, other men, with a truck on which was a bag being in waiting...

Daily News

It has been supplied by an inhabitant of Llanelly, South Wales. He happened to be in Cannon row on the Saturday before the body was found, and at an hour when the place was practically deserted.His attention was directed to a man who climbed over a hoarding into the ground whereon the new police building is being erected, and where afterwards the body was discovered. Two other men who were with him had a barrow on which was a bundle.

[RockySullivan]

Thanks for posting that. those sound like the same event though. and there is one resolution where the man was a worker not o the clock. then it would follow that one of these men was a worker on his day off. but if the story took place on a saturday while others like hedge were working then i'm just not understanding whats going on here.

[jerryd]

Thanks for posting that. those sound like the same event though. and there is one resolution where the man was a worker not o the clock. then it would follow that one of these men was a worker on his day off. but if the story took place on a saturday while others like hedge were working then i'm just not understanding whats going on here.

They are an account of the same event.These men were checked out and nothing was amiss. I'm not sure I've seen the story of a worker off the clock.

[RockySullivan]

They are an account of the same event.These men were checked out and nothing was amiss. I'm not sure I've seen the story of a worker off the clock.

i thought debs posted it a few pages back. but jerry do you really trust they were checked out thoroughly? it could have been just oh ok that was fred wildbore and mr hedge

[jerryd]

i thought debs posted it a few pages back. but jerry do you really trust they were checked out thoroughly? it could have been just oh ok that was fred wildbore and mr hedge

Debs posted about a worker at the Red Lion wanting to be a night watchman for the site and was denied. The Red Lion was on Cannon Row close to the site. Like Debs said, he may have made up stories of men entering the site so he could get the job. But it does not say the man from the Red Lion was the man from Llannelly.

Like I said earlier, Rocky, if it were Frederick Wildbore or (H)Edge, they could have entered without climbing the hoarding. They would have known the string trick.

[RockySullivan]

Oh that's right but I thought I just read again in this thread the newspaper story of the worker who was there when he wasn't working?

[Fisherman]

No Fist, you know what this quote shows? read it again: "Probably the main objective of the person who put the body in the vault was to get rid of it, and not to permanently conceal it, which he must have known to be extremely difficult"

once more?

"not to permanently conceal it, which he must have known to be extremely difficult"


what no bonfire? no anchors?

And no debate - as long as...

[Sam Flynn]

Have you digested the fact that Hebbert deemed the Pinchin Street torso the most skilfully dismembered body yet?

Dismembered, but not eviscerated.The only torso dumped in Ripper territory, but no disembowelment. Funny, that.

The last time we heard from you, you suggested that it was the other way around.

I suggested no such thing.

[Fisherman]

Sam Flynn: Dismembered, but not eviscerated.

Yes, it will have been hard to deide to what degree the Pinchin Street killer was a skilful eviscerator, therefore. To a degree, actually, that makes it a useless point to discuss. So I decided on discussing the point where the skill of the perpetrator COULD be established - the dismembering.

The only torso dumped in Ripper territory, but no disembowelment. Funny, that.

Is it? How so? What is funny about it? I don´t see anything at all funny about it. I register that there can be little doubt that it was the same killer as in the other cases in 87, 88 and 89, something that is clearly laid down by Hebbert. And then I think that there will be a significance in the fact that the killer chose Pinchin Street as the dumping site. And I take a look at the different suspects, to see if any of them has a link to Pinchin Street, and I notice that there is no such man. But there IS Charles Lechmere (the man I point to on "the flimsiest of evidence"), who has MORE than a link to Pinchin Street - he has many such links.
Funny, that.

I suggested no such thing.

You led on that the Pinchin Street case seemed to speak of a less experienced killer and dismemberer. Maybe you used a slightly different wording, but that was the long and the short of it, and it would be nice if you acknowledged it. It would also save me the trouble of going through all the posts to prove my point.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam Flynn: Dismembered, but not eviscerated.

Yes, it will have been hard to deide to what degree the Pinchin Street killer was a skilful eviscerator, therefore. To a degree, actually, that makes it a useless point to discuss. So I decided on discussing the point where the skill of the perpetrator COULD be established - the dismembering.

Thus ignoring the very relevant fact that the Pinchin Street victim was NOT eviscerated.

Sam Flynn: The only torso dumped in Ripper territory, but no disembowelment. Funny, that.

Is it? How so? What is funny about it? I don´t see anything at all funny about it. I register that there can be little doubt that it was the same killer as in the other cases in 87, 88 and 89, something that is clearly laid down by Hebbert.

Little doubt? When all the others were dumped some 13 miles away in the river Thames and/or elsewhere in Southwest London?

And then I think that there will be a significance in the fact that the killer chose Pinchin Street as the dumping site.

What's the significance of Battersea (or thereabouts), where all the other victims were dumped in or around the river?

And I take a look at the different suspects, to see if any of them has a link to Pinchin Street, and I notice that there is no such man.

Pinchin Street is only a short walk from where a number of suspects lived.

But there IS Charles Lechmere (the man I point to on "the flimsiest of evidence"), who has MORE than a link to Pinchin Street - he has many such links.

So had thousands of others, named or unnamed.

Sam Flynn: I suggested no such thing.

You led on that the Pinchin Street case seemed to speak of a less experienced killer and dismemberer.

My point was to ask why, after having had experience of totally dismembering previous (and yet to come) victims, the Pinchin Street killer(s) didn't remove the victim's arms.

[RockySullivan]

Dismembered, but not eviscerated.The only torso dumped in Ripper territory, but no disembowelment. Funny, that.
I suggested no such thing.

what does "The abdominal region of the body was heavily mutilated, and it was reported that the handiwork was eerily reminiscent of the Ripper's work; at least one account states that the womb was missing" amount to from casebook pinchin torso page? and what exactly does 'there was a wound 15in. long through the external coats of the abdomen" mean, would the cut have drawn blood?