Not for nothing

[GUT]

The most fantastic thing in the world my dear David: Generating knowledge.

Well maybe take it to Pub Talk if it has nothing to do with the case.

And you have the nerve to shout OFF TOPIC at everyone else.

[David Orsam]

The most fantastic thing in the world my dear David: Generating knowledge.

But why are we doing this in:

Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness ?

Should you not be "generating knowledge" in a more suitable forum?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=David Orsam;417111]

Would it be impolite of me to point out that all of your sources for the expression "not for nothing" were from literature?

It would only be pointless since that is the point. They are meant to be literary examples.

Therefore I thought that is what you wanted.

I see. But we need the real sources, not the view on the "poor" if we want to give examples from the East End and not from the field of literature.

You see, David, people here (some) believe that the expression is pure and simple cockney from the street in Victorian Whitechapel.

There were no tape recorders in the nineteenth century my dear boy so it's a bit hard to provide you with an example of an actual person speaking if that's your demand.

No, so you may see why I am puzzled when some people say that the expression was spoken cockney from the East End.

There is one (1) written example from 1888. WHO is speaking?

That is the next problem that we may deal with, but first, as you can clearly see, we must overcome the eternal problem of the sources.

Hence, we can not speak about cockney without examples.

I, for my part, do not think "not for nothing" was cockney, but learned speach - and as you see, I have some bits of evidence for it.

Now I challenge those who want to say that the expression is cockney from the East End.

I hope they will show me that I am wrong.

And sadly enough the other alternative stands.

And that is my last post for now.

Cheers, Pierre

[GUT]

But why are we doing this in:

Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness ?

Should you not be "generating knowledge" in a more suitable forum?

Mmmm maybe the whole thread, including its creator, is OFF TOPIC.

[GUT]

No, so you may see why I am puzzled when some people say that the expression was spoken cockney from the East End

Please show us where anyone has said that, about the phrase that you can't even link to the ripper case.

Stranger and stranger the twisted arguments you try to create.

[David Orsam]

I see. But we need the real sources, not the view on the "poor" if we want to give examples from the East End and not from the field of literature.

You see, David, people here (some) believe that the expression is pure and simple cockney from the street in Victorian Whitechapel.

My dear boy, you are, as usual, confused. No-one is saying, or has said, that the expression "not for nothing" is "pure and simple cockney from the street in Victorian Whitechapel".

In fact, no-one has referred to the expression "not for nothing" at all because it is not part of the Ripper case.

But the use of the double negative in a sentence such as, to take a random example, "the men who will not be blamed for nothing" is pure cockney, although not only cockney by any means.

I gave you an "authentic" example of such use of double negative by a London prisoner who said "I ain't done nothing" when arrested.

In the expression "not for nothing", a true double negative is not to be found, so it's completely different from any expression relating to the Ripper case which it seems I'm not allowed to mention in this thread.

[Pcdunn]

Links about Cockney double negatives

http://proper-english-foundatio.yolasite.com/chaucer-and-cockney-double-negatives.php

http://publicdomainreview.org/collections/a-dictionary-of-victorian-slang-1909/

I have found that double-negatives appear in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, so it seems to date back to Old English usage.

The 1909 A Dictionary of Victorian Slang is a out-of-copyright book (also known as being "in public domain") which you may download in PDF format, and use for research.

[Scott Nelson]

Would someone be lees inclined to write a sentence with a double negative as opposed to speaking one?

[GUT]

Would someone be lees inclined to write a sentence with a double negative as opposed to speaking one?

Possibly vary be education and context of the writing.

[Flower and Dean]

This again? Are you on a quest to populate the forum with your thoughts on the GSG, Pierre?

My dear boy, you are, as usual, confused. No-one is saying, or has said, that the expression "not for nothing" is "pure and simple cockney from the street in Victorian Whitechapel".

In fact, no-one has referred to the expression "not for nothing" at all because it is not part of the Ripper case.

But the use of the double negative in a sentence such as, to take a random example, "the men who will not be blamed for nothing" is pure cockney, although not only cockney by any means.

I gave you an "authentic" example of such use of double negative by a London prisoner who said "I ain't done nothing" when arrested.

In the expression "not for nothing", a true double negative is not to be found, so it's completely different from any expression relating to the Ripper case which it seems I'm not allowed to mention in this thread.

If this doesn't make it clear, I don't know what will.

[Abby Normal]

But why are we comparing with "not for nothing"? What does the expression "not for nothing" have to do with the Ripper case?

Because Pierre has a found something that his suspect wrote that uses the phrase not for nothing.

[GUT]

This again? Are you on a quest to populate the forum with your thoughts on the GSG, Pierre?



If this doesn't make it clear, I don't know what will.

I think he is on a quest to drive everyone insane with his rubbish.

[GUT]

Because Pierre has a found something that his suspect wrote that uses the phrase not for nothing.

But didn't he tell us the other day that he has no suspect, in spite of his first ever post being "I think I've found him"

[The Good Michael]

But didn't he tell us the other day that he has no suspect, in spite of his first ever post being "I think I've found him"

I remember something like this: "I know who's done it, but I have to do more research to prove that it isn't him. If it were him, as my current research has uncovered and thus far, is irrefutable, it would be bad. I sincerely want to be wrong, but I fear I am right."

This kind of thing. It was dramatic bullshit and meant nothing then, and less now.

Mike

[GUT]

I remember something like this: "I know who's done it, but I have to do more research to prove that it isn't him. If it were him, as my current research has uncovered and thus far, is irrefutable, it would be bad. I sincerely want to be wrong, but I fear I am right."

This kind of thing. It was dramatic bullshit and meant nothing then, and less now.

Mike

Sums it up nicely in my opinion.