What was occuring in 1888?

[MrBarnett]

Well it looks like the infants school was actually in Angel Alley, both this and the ragged school are marked as part of the George Yard Mission on the '89 Goad map. I can't link to that but this OS map hopefully shows the schools;

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.14533837734441&lat=51.5163&lon=-0.0713&layers=163&b=1

Unless she actually manufactured bed frames, or stuffed mattresses? But most likely as you say.

Thanks, Joshua.

I hadn't seen the 'Infants School' in Angel Alley identified as such on an OS map before. I'm not sure when that was built, it wasn't there in 1874 but seems to have been by 1890, so that could well be the one my grandfather attended.

After the death of my GG they moved to 4, Angel Alley at the N (Wentworth Street) end, but by then the boys had apparently left GY school.

[DJA]

So it was. Turns out that Williamina Fleming was the one who discovered the Horsehead Nebula in 1888 by examining the photographic plate he'd made.

Thanks, Dave.

Cor blimey! What's that nebulous horse head looking thing in that 'photo!

Just a coincidence

Cheers Sam.

[Joshua Rogan]

I'm not totally sure to be honest. It was the George Yard Charity School (Infants), which I have always assumed was the one that had been the 'ragged school'. They transferred there from St Jude's.

Well it looks like the infants school was actually in Angel Alley, both this and the ragged school are marked as part of the George Yard Mission on the '89 Goad map. I can't link to that but this OS map hopefully shows the schools;

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.14533837734441&lat=51.5163&lon=-0.0713&layers=163&b=1

her occupation was shown as 'bed-maker' - most likely in a local doss-house I would imagine.

Unless she actually manufactured bed frames, or stuffed mattresses? But most likely as you say.

[MrBarnett]

Interesting! Was that the school adjacent to Toynbee Hall, or the one near the southern archway marked "ragged school"?

Hi Joshua,

I'm not totally sure to be honest. It was the George Yard Charity School (Infants), which I have always assumed was the one that had been the 'ragged school'. They transferred there from St Jude's. Their father was at various times recorded as a hawker/coster/general dealer and the family had previously lived in Wentworth Street, Flower and Dean Street and Keat Street (Thrawl Street).

GGM remarried in 1891 and the family then moved to Shovel Alley off Cable Street. On her marriage cert her occupation was shown as 'bed-maker' - most likely in a local doss-house I would imagine.

Gary

[Joshua Rogan]

A few notches down on the social scale from Miss Marple's fascinating ancestors, my grandfather and his younger brother were enrolled in the George Yard Free Infants School in March, 1888. At the time the family were living in George Yard Buildings, where they apparently remained until at least December, 1890 when the boys' father died. By 1891 their widowed mother had moved them to nearby Angel Alley.

Interesting! Was that the school adjacent to Toynbee Hall, or the one near the southern archway marked "ragged school"?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua,

I believe Alice Kinsey (her real name) took George Dixon to a pub near the Royal Cambridge

And there was me thinking she selflessly treated young George to an evening at the theatre! Still, I suppose a pub is entertainment too, depending on how old he was. And if you can get someone else to pay for your drinks, as Alice seems to have done, that's money saved too.

[miss marple]

The Royal Cambridge was at 139 Commercial St.[ wrote rd by mistake] In the summer of 1888 audiences flocked to see Captain Thomas Baldwin, a dare devil American who made parachute ascents from a balloon. In august 88 he had been appearing at Alexandra Palace. An article in The Era from 1st September describes a comedy duo O'Conner and Brady appearing at the Cambridge, and being topical [music hall acts always kept up to date with the latest news] sent him up.

''we were now moved to mirth as we saw one of their hilarious pair apparently deprived of arms by his partner who then inflated him, until balloon like, he ascended to the flies to drop thence, holding an ordinary umbrella, in burlesque imitation of the intrepid aeronautist Professor Baldwin who's ascents and descents are now causing such a sensation at Alexandra Palace.''

miss marple

MrBarnett, my GGM was a working class woman, born in Seven Dials. The majority of music hall artists came from the working classes.
Whenever i try to upload an image i am always told my file is too big !

[MrBarnett]

A few notches down on the social scale from Miss Marple's fascinating ancestors, my grandfather and his younger brother were enrolled in the George Yard Free Infants School in March, 1888. At the time the family were living in George Yard Buildings, where they apparently remained until at least December, 1890 when the boys' father died. By 1891 their widowed mother had moved them to nearby Angel Alley.

[MrBarnett]

If they were sensible with what little cash they had, perhaps....but didn't Alice McKenzie spend her rent money taking a blind boy to the Royal Cambridge?

Hi Joshua,

I believe Alice Kinsey (her real name) took George Dixon to a pub near the Royal Cambridge, which of course was in Commercial Street rather than the Commercial Road. At the time Alice was in a fairly stable relationship with John McCormack/Bryant who had a steady job, so she might have been able to afford an occasional visit to the Music Hall. Whether she would have chosen to spend her money that way rather than on booze and 'bacca though is another matter.

Gary

[Joshua Rogan]

Yes I would love to go back in time to see some of the great music hall acts. The inhabitants of Spitalfields would go to the Royal Cambridge on the Commercial Rd, in 1888 it was run by E.V Page, but entertainment beyond the pockets of the ripper victims.

If they were sensible with what little cash they had, perhaps....but didn't Alice McKenzie spend her rent money taking a blind boy to the Royal Cambridge?

[miss marple]

Yes I would love to go back in time to see some of the great music hall acts. The inhabitants of Spitalfields would go to the Royal Cambridge on the Commercial Rd, in 1888 it was run by E.V Page, but entertainment beyond the pockets of the ripper victims.

miss marple

[Joshua Rogan]

Fantastic, Miss M, that sounds like it was an entertaining show. Standing room only, I'll bet.

[miss marple]

On 10th March 1888 my great grandmother was appearing at the South London Palace with the Horne Brothers in their celebrated boxing act. She was 17, a young Marie Lloyd age 16 was on the same bill, serio and dancer. Also on the bill were De Wynne, Juggler, Filson and Errol America's refined sketch artists.

An article in The Era describes the act '' The Brothers Horne are now associated with Miss Lydia Tindall who can dance an Irish jig. The set -to between the two oldest of the brothers is provocative of both applause and hilarity, the boxing being smarter than ever, the representative of the shoe black also displaying low comedy humour that seemed readily to take with the ''gods''.
The 'gods' were the upper circle seats in a theatre. A shoe black was a person who polished shoes in the street with their portable equipment.

The South London Music Hall was at 92 London Rd Lambeth. it was run by an enterprising woman Mrs J J Poole, who made it very successful. There were many women in theatre in the 19th century who became managers . Every music hall artiste had a circuit of certain halls they travelled to all over the country. Lydia made many appearances at the Palace. Marie had a different circuit as she became more famous.
I just want to end with this fantastic description of the act ' Three Brothers Horne and Lydia Tindall in their Funny Fistic Features.'

miss marple

[Harry D]

The 1888 "photo" was actually taken by William Henry Pickering.

Any relation to the great Ronnie?

[Sam Flynn]

The 1888 "photo" was actually taken by William Henry Pickering.

So it was. Turns out that Williamina Fleming was the one who discovered the Horsehead Nebula in 1888 by examining the photographic plate he'd made.

Thanks, Dave.