Apron placement as intimidation?

[Fisherman]

Dr Browns official inquest testimony "it was the corner of he apron with a string attached" primary evidence !
www.trevormarriott.co.uk

The Daily Telegraphs report from the exact same inquest, Brown speaking: "I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body", primary evidence.

[Pierre]

Yes by the seams, but none that state the two pieces made up a full apron.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

This is a suggestion.

[Trevor Marriott]

The Daily Telegraphs report from the exact same inquest, Brown speaking: "I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body", primary evidence.

Then why was it not listed as an item of clothing she was wearing ? If it were that big it could not have been missed.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

This is a suggestion.

The seams run along the outside part of an apron from top to bottom. The bottom of the apron is known as the hem.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Elamarna]

If you are going to take the time to reply please stick to the issues being discussed.

If you do not like the truth Trevor, if its too hot, stay out of the kitchen.

The fact is, that there were only two pieces of apron that were matched by the seams so that as previously stated could only have been top left, bottom left or top right bottom right, meaning two quarters of a potentially four quarter apron.So perhaps you would care to tell us what happened to the rest of the apron if she was wearing one?

Wrong.

You do not know which seams matched, Brown does not state any information on this issue.

There are only 2 pieces, they make a whole apron.

You are inventing these views, they are not based on the data.

If the killer cut across horizontally the rest of the apron would still be attached to the body and would have been noted when the body was stripped because the other clothing could not have been removed until the apron was.

If he cut down vertically from the waistband a string would be on the GS piece and noted as such.

That is your view, it is faulty.

It is not the only alternative, has you have been told.

Dr Browns official inquest testimony "it was the corner of he apron with a string attached" primary evidence !

You are being economic with the truth, he says his attention was drawn to an area with blood on it, he then gives the location of this blood.

Staying with official documents Dc Halse says that he saw a piece of the apron was missing. He doesn't say she was wearing the apron and he was with Collard presumably when the list was made up, unless of course the list was complied by the mortuary keeper before there arrival, and thats why he says he saw the body stripped, it had already been stripped and the lists made up by the mortuary keeper which I have to think is a strong possibilty




Collards official inquest testimony he says the apron she was apparently wearing. Now which part of his testimony is correct? Why did he say apparently if it was clearly evident that she was wearing an apron? Again I suggest the mortuary keeper made the lists.

Your interpretation, it is not fact. please stop deliberately misleading people, it is shameful.

So there are many anomalies with regards to this apron issue.

Only in your view,

[jerryd]

This is a suggestion.

Wrong kind of apron, Pierre. It was attached at her neck also.

[DJA]

The seams run along the outside part of an apron from top to bottom. The bottom of the apron is known as the hem.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Pretty close....for you.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seam_(sewing)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hem

[DJA]

Wrong kind of apron, Pierre. It was attached at her neck also.

Doubt it.

Source?

[DJA]

This is a suggestion.

Suggestion is wrong.

[jerryd]

Doubt it.

Source?

Copied from Simon's post from another thread. This is the same source Debs keeps asking Trevor to comment on.

MEPO 48/1. Private Letter Book, Metropolitan Police.

Wednesday 3rd October 1888—

Sir Charles Warren to Sir James Fraser—

“I have seen Mr. Matthews today and he is anxious to know whether it can be known that the torn bib of the woman murdered in Mitre Square cannot have been taken to Goulston Street by any person except the murderer. In order to do this, it is necessary [to discover] if there is any proof that at the time the corpse was found the bib* was found with a piece wanting, that the piece was not lying about the yard at the time the corpse was found and taken to Goulston Street by some of the lookers on as a hoax, and that the piece found in Goulston Street is without doubt a portion of that which was worn by the woman.

"I shall be very glad if you can give me the necessary particulars on this point."

Wickerman followed up with this from the Times.

Oddly, but happily at least one press source got it right - the Times:
"...a piece of old white coarse apron and a piece of riband were tied loosely around the neck."

What is a bib, in your opinion?

[DJA]

Thanks mate.
Doubt there was a bib.
No mention of one at the watch house.
Not in the sketch done at Mitre Square immediately after Eddowes was discovered.

[jerryd]

Thanks mate.
Doubt there was a bib.
No mention of one at the watch house.
Not in the sketch done at Mitre Square immediately after Eddowes was discovered.

Collard saw the body in situ and mentioned an apron on the body.

[jerryd]

I question whether F.W Foster actually made the sketch while the body was in situ. Dr Brown had already penciled the position of the body and the wounds. Foster's father, the Superintendent of Police and also living at 26 Jewry arrived to the square about 2:20 a.m. The body was removed to the mortuary at 3:00 a.m. I doubt the City surveyor arrived before his own father, the police Superintendent. F.W Foster's primary purpose was to determine the direction the killer took and to determine the different routes he might have taken. At 3:45 a.m he sketched Eddowes body at the mortuary. I personally feel that he used Brown's "in situ" sketch and improved upon it.

Where is mention of F.W. Foster in Mitre Square at all while the body was still there?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jerry,

Completely agree.

Caption under drawing of Eddowes' body.



"Position of the body when found from a sketch made on the spot by Dr. F. Gordon Brown."

Regards,

Simon

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Completely agree.

Caption under drawing of Eddowes' body.

[ATTACH]17866[/ATTACH]

"Position of the body when found from a sketch made on the spot by Dr. F. Gordon Brown."

Regards,

Simon

Thanks for posting that, Simon.

Eddowes clothes were pushed upward. It's possible they were covering the apron piece.