Apron placement as intimidation?

[Harry D]

Nice bit of reasoning there, Harry. I do like the way you think...uh...well...about the case anyway. Keep up the good work.

c.d.

Thank you, CD.

I just calls 'em like I sees 'em!

[Jon Guy]

indeed Jon

Abby

Say the author of the GSG was the Ripper.
Does your gut tell you he was Jewish and sticking it up to the Gentiles ?
Or, he was a Gentile, trying to stir racial tensions ?
AND / OR another reason ?

[Abby Normal]

Abby

Say the author of the GSG was the Ripper.
Does your gut tell you he was Jewish and sticking it up to the Gentiles ?
Or, he was a Gentile, trying to stir racial tensions ?
AND / OR another reason ?

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

Thanks Abby. That could work even without Stride in the mix, as the killer could have been leaving Eddowes (alive at Church Passage) when Lawende and co pass by. They see Eddowes put her hand on the man`s chest, possibly to keep him from moving on, thus signing her own death warrant.
There are so many possible scenarios, but my favourite scenario is that it was a Gentile, who saw the mob running around the streets punching Jews after the Chapman murder, and was keen to stoke further tensions.
But possibly, it was a Jewish murderer who either got singled out by the mob, or was witness to some violence after the Chapman murder, and was keen to show 2 fingers to the Gentiles

[Robert St Devil]

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred; and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews. The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder, which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

[c.d.]

I still don't see a Jewish connection to the GSG. Are we to believe that the killer went out that evening with the mindset that if he did encounter someone while doing his thing that they would simply say "hey, whatcha doing there, buddy? Oh, just cuttin up a whore? Sorry to have bothered you." That seems pretty damn delusional on his part.

The people who interrupted him were Jews but again the question is did they do it in some sort of Jewish way or do it solely because they were Jews?

To fly into a rage and write a message as a result of the interruptions seems a bit farfetched to me. Just my opinion.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Jon
The events of that evening lead me to beleive that the ripper wrote the GSG and that he was a local gentile, pissed off at being interupted by jews that night, most probably from the lipski incident, wrote the GSG to deflect blame to them.

But people were already suspecting Jews, so there was arguably no need for any such deflection.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Robert

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don`t know. My guess is that he wasn`t that anti-Semitic.

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred;

Nor me, yet a number of people at the time claimed The Ripper was on some sort of religious mission.

and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews.

They did, but it had been brewing with the accusation of John Pizer and the folk tales of Leather Apron.

The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder,

As above, the blame quickly fell upon Leather Apron after the Nichols murder.

which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

Personally, I don`t think for a minute that the killer set out with racist intent.

The mobs running around Spitalfields on the day of the Chapman murder blaming and punching the local Jews may have been of some amusement for the actual killer. Not only was it fun for him to see what he instigated, but he was deflecting any suspicion.

In between murders, killers can relive their murderous moments, spicing up their memories with trophies and souvenirs. They peruse the newspaper coverage and listen to the public around them. They can then communicate with the police and newspapers. Lots of ways to stretch out the experience, until they have to do it again
I believe that the message could have been a way of stirring up the mob and creating a buzz for the killer, outside of the actual murder itself.
Her could have stood safely watching the violence and confusion he has created.
The killer was obviously a massively flawed individual but need not have been racist. He probably hated everything and everybody.

But of course, I am 48% aware that the rag could just have been tossed in that doorway as they quickly hurried down Gouldston Street.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi JG. I just keep coming back to the same question: if Jack the Ripper was anti-Semitic (if that even matters in this case), why didn't he murder Jew prostitutes?

I don't see anything about Polly's or Annie's murders that would suggest Jack the Ripper was communicating any religious hatred; and, I'm left with an impression that the crowd took it upon themselves, after the Chapman murder, to accuse the Jews. The aspect of anti-Semitism doesn't seem to enter the case until after the Chapman murder, which makes me wonder if it was ever even a forethought in the murderer's mind.

Just out of curiosity, do we know how many Jewish prostitutes were around? Perhaps it’s just not something that anyone made a study of?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Robert



I don`t know. My guess is that he wasn`t that anti-Semitic.




Nor me, yet a number of people at the time claimed The Ripper was on some sort of religious mission.



They did, but it had been brewing with the accusation of John Pizer and the folk tales of Leather Apron.



As above, the blame quickly fell upon Leather Apron after the Nichols murder.



Personally, I don`t think for a minute that the killer set out with racist intent.

The mobs running around Spitalfields on the day of the Chapman murder blaming and punching the local Jews may have been of some amusement for the actual killer. Not only was it fun for him to see what he instigated, but he was deflecting any suspicion.

In between murders, killers can relive their murderous moments, spicing up their memories with trophies and souvenirs. They peruse the newspaper coverage and listen to the public around them. They can then communicate with the police and newspapers. Lots of ways to stretch out the experience, until they have to do it again
I believe that the message could have been a way of stirring up the mob and creating a buzz for the killer, outside of the actual murder itself.
Her could have stood safely watching the violence and confusion he has created.
The killer was obviously a massively flawed individual but need not have been racist. He probably hated everything and everybody.

But of course, I am 48% aware that the rag could just have been tossed in that doorway as they quickly hurried down Gouldston Street.

Hi Jon
Good post and I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I don’t think he need be inherently anti Semitic either, but I think he was probably playing around with the anti Semitic feeling at the time and specifically triggered to do the gsg by the interruption by Jews that night.

[Abby Normal]

But people were already suspecting Jews, so there was arguably no need for any such deflection.

Hi sam
IMHO he was fueling the prevalent fire and or pissed off by all the pesky Jews that night.

What better way to obsfucate than to blame the people who, in his mind, were probably going to be soon giving his description to the police?

[Sam Flynn]

Just out of curiosity, do we know how many Jewish prostitutes were around? Perhaps it’s just not something that anyone made a study of?

They would have been very thin on the ground, for cultural and statistical reasons. The idea of Jack "targeting" prostitutes on the basis of their religion, or anything else for that matter, is very unlikely in any case. I'd suggest that he took whatever opportunities presented themselves.

[etenguy]

They would have been very thin on the ground, for cultural and statistical reasons. The idea of Jack "targeting" prostitutes on the basis of their religion, or anything else for that matter, is very unlikely in any case. I'd suggest that he took whatever opportunities presented themselves.

Hi Sam

I almost agree with you, except to say, other than Mary Jane Kelly, all of his victims were very similar in type (age, size etc...). So I think he was either after a specific person (unlikely) or he was targeting a specific look. I suspect, (cod science follows) that he may have been triggered into starting his murder spree by an incident involving someone of that general look. Perhaps after years of a bad relationship with that person.

[Sam Flynn]

People of a certain class dressed pretty much alike back then.

[cnr]

Just out of curiosity, do we know how many Jewish prostitutes were around? Perhaps it’s just not something that anyone made a study of?

They would have been very thin on the ground, for cultural and statistical reasons. The idea of Jack "targeting" prostitutes on the basis of their religion, or anything else for that matter, is very unlikely in any case.

On a personal note, I always try and ask myself how much our twentyfirst century cultural preconceptions might fudge our understanding of Whitechapel in 1888; so these are excellent matters to be delving into and asking questions about and theorising on. Certainly, not all the Jews in Whitechapel were religious or Orthodox - a significant proportion were secular, even radical/socialist in their outlook: both men and women.

We also know that there were Jewish prostitutes. Lady Constance Rothschild Battersea's initiative, harking back to 1885 shows that the Jewish community, like any other, sought to do what it could to help with something it clearly saw as a problem. The establishment of the 'Jewish Association for the Protection of Girls & Women' was a direct response.

The full extent of it may be hard to gauge; but where we are on safer ground is in saying that each of the canonical victims were gentiles, as was Alice McKenzie; and two others who I suspect may well have ran foul of Jack The Ripper, Ada Wilson and Martha Tabram.

Stephen

https://www.timesofisrael.com/were-the-jack-the-ripper-murders-an-elaborate-anti-semitic-frameup/