Jack an Alcoholic?

[miss marple]

I dont think he drank. He was too careful and controlled. I think he had puritanical nature and despised women, espicially drunken women.To be anti intuititive I think he hated sex and despised drinkers because of their lack of control. He felt superior to them, one of the signs of a psychopath.
I have read lots and lots of accounts in newspapers of violent drunken men in the LVP attacking their partners or other women.i am researching it at the moment and there is not a case I have read that resembles the ripper.The motivation is entirely different A drunken man in a rage then would sometimes beat and kick their women, sometimes killing them or stab them randomly, without any thought process, sometimes in public in the street without any attempt to hide what was happening. These men would often go on benders getting blind drunk, then attacking the women.

Miss Marple

[Observer]

good enough for the goose

But you believe Bury was the Ripper, don't you? So that kind of goes without saying.

I believe you are of the opinion that Jacob Levy was the Ripper Harry, and it therefore goes without saying that the reason Joseph Hyam Levy was reluctant to share his observations, with the press, on the night of Kate Eddowes murder, was down to the fact that he had recognised his relative as the man he saw taking to Kate Eddowes at the entrance to Church Passage.

[Harry D]

To Harry

Yes but it would explain the perceived differences in skill in the cutting in some of the C5.

I think there could be more than one explanation for the discrepancies in skill. Is the Ripper's perceived alcoholism a cornerstone to your belief in Bury as the Ripper? Or is it incidental?

Besides I thought you regarded Bury as the strongest suspect?

Correct.

[John Wheat]

I think there could be more than one explanation for the discrepancies in skill. Is the Ripper's perceived alcoholism a cornerstone to your belief in Bury as the Ripper? Or is it incidental?




Correct.

To Harry

No its incidental.

Cheers John

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello John,

An interesting question but one that is very difficult to answer. We don't even know if Jack drank at all let alone whether or not he was an alcoholic. I think the best we can do is speculate that he might have frequented the pubs perhaps buying drinks for his victims but that is in no way an indication of alcoholism.

c.d.

All we can say with certainty is that someone, person or persons unknown, killed prostitutes in the East End of London in the 1888-1889 period. There are no valid other clues as to who did it so anyone who "knows" who the Whitechapel murderer or murderers were is wrong. Plain and simple.

Best regards

Chris

[John Wheat]

All we can say with certainty is that someone, person or persons unknown, killed prostitutes in the East End of London in the 1888-1889 period. There are no valid other clues as to who did it so anyone who "knows" who the Whitechapel murderer or murderers were is wrong. Plain and simple.

Best regards

Chris

Hi Chris

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying they know who Jack is for definite. People should be allowed to say who they believe Jack the Ripper was though there is a difference. My own personal belief is that Bury was the Ripper however I readily admit this is probably a 51% 49% type of belief. E.g
I believe there is nearly as much chance Bury wasn't the Ripper. Also I would be ecstatic if someone else was proven to be the Ripper as the case would be solved. I'm sure a number of others would also feel that they would rather know who was the Ripper even if it wasn't there favoured suspect.

Cheers John

[Fleetwood Mac]

Was Jack an Alcoholic?

You'd have to define alcoholic.

The US has more of a Scottish Presbyterian influence and so more intolerant of alcohol consumption. In England having a pint at midday reading the newspaper, is relaxing; in the US they may think that person has a problem.

By English standards, I don't think Jack was an alcoholic but then living in that area he probably enjoyed a few at the weekend which the vast majority of people would have done.

[Observer]

To Harry
Besides I thought you regarded Bury as the strongest suspect?

Correct.

Hold on, something doesn't add up here. I could have sworn Harry D favoured Levy, and now Bury is his favourite suspect. If Bury is his favourite suspect, why is he putting dents in his credentials as a Ripper suspect, that is, questioning whether serial killers, on the whole, are substance abusers? Surely, if Bury is his favoured suspect, then he'd go along withy John Wheat's opinion that the Ripper was an alcoholic. Hmmmm.

[Pierre]

Was Jack an Alcoholic?

Hi,

If he managed to hold a steady and highly qualified job for a long time it is not very likely. If he didn´t manage that during 1888-1889 he may have had some sort of minor alcohol problems.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

Hi,

If he managed to hold a steady and highly qualified job for a long time it is not very likely. If he didn´t manage that during 1888-1889 he may have had some sort of minor alcohol problems.

Regards, Pierre

Pierre

persons with alcohol related health issues often manage to to hold a high status position far easier than those at a lower level.

steve

[Pierre]

Pierre

persons with alcohol related health issues often manage to to hold a high status position far easier than those at a lower level.

steve

I think it is best that we do not debate this issue, since we are talking about data from different time periods here. It will not lead anywhere.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

I think it is best that we do not debate this issue, since we are talking about data from different time periods here. It will not lead anywhere.

Regards, Pierre

Pierre

you have data to back that view point do you? ( a few examples, not one or two)

of course it is your right not to debate,

Steve

[DJA]

Pierre

persons with alcohol related health issues often manage to to hold a high status position far easier than those at a lower level.

steve

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald

One of many from that era that springs to mind.

[Harry D]

Hold on, something doesn't add up here. I could have sworn Harry D favoured Levy, and now Bury is his favourite suspect. If Bury is his favourite suspect, why is he putting dents in his credentials as a Ripper suspect, that is, questioning whether serial killers, on the whole, are substance abusers? Surely, if Bury is his favoured suspect, then he'd go along withy John Wheat's opinion that the Ripper was an alcoholic. Hmmmm.

Hello, Observer (must have missed your first post)

You're right, there was a time when I was looking at Jacob Levy as a suspect, but I was never a fully-fledged Jacobite inasmuch that I thought it was case closed. I'd never have the audacity to make such a claim. And I still think he's an interesting character, who we owe a great deal to Tracy & the other researchers for bringing into the fold.

Compared to the veterans here, I'm still a greenhorn to this particular field and reserve the right to alter my opinion as I develop a better understanding of the subject matter. Nowadays I tend to favour suspects with a proven propensity for violence, all the better if they're a murderer and a mutilator! And that's what sets Bury apart from the usual suspects. There are a ton of men out there who had the means and the opportunity to commit the Whitechapel murders, but there is a presumption of guilt required to suit the facts, which is why many fall at the first fence. You don't need to make that leap of faith with William Bury. He WAS a murderer and he did perform abdominal mutilations on his victim. Whether he killed the C5 or not, who knows, but at least we know what he was capable of.

As for questioning Jack's alcoholism, just because I consider Bury to be the likeliest of the named suspects doesn't mean that I believe he WAS the Ripper. Nor does it mean that I'm unable or unwilling to look at him critically as I would any other suspect. I only ask that people treat their own pet suspects in the same way.

[Bridewell]

For instance, homeless suspects like Francis Thompson wouldn't have been able to afford gin too often.

Alcoholics are compelled to drink. It is a compulsion They don't abstain from drink when they can't afford it.