Does the Goulston Street Graffito eliminate Jewish Immigrants as suspects?

[Newbie]

Newbie- interesting piece on the double negative. Many thanks.

I wonder if the fact that the door jamb was black and
chalk was white aided the killer? It also strikes me that the lettering height was only one-half inch in height!

Would someone with time and in daylight, if they were trying to incite protests or riots against Jews write that small? In a place clearly not that visable from the street? Or would someone trying to write a message in the dark have to look closely at the black jamb and with white chalk write a message? Obviously someone who could write and with chalk at one half inch heights? This person appears to be fluid with writing in chalk.

I personally think the double event is less coincidence than calculating.

Kill Stride in Metro like all other murders to date and next to an Immigrant Jewish Socialist Club? Implication?
Head to London ( his home?) and find Eddowes and murder ( the only time in London) and head back to Metro?
Head back to Metro and dispose the Apron and leave a message implicating Jews...again on the same night? And also making police believe he lived in Metro?

The immigrant Jews were prime suspects during this time. A calculating murderer would be smart to use that as an advantage. On the night of September 30 the killer appears to possibly have done this twice. The Working Mens Club and Goulston Street. Coincidence or Calculated on the move?

We dont know of course but Mary Kellys death was in Metro not far from Chapmans so the killer returns to Metro to murder after Eddowes. Why? Because he lived in London and would not be followed out of Metro jurisdiction??

There were a lot of Jews in Whitechapel, one would have to try very hard to avoid their proximity.
Jews only come into prominence with the double event, particularly if you include the graffito as being authored by the ripper;
otherwise, that theme has no prominence elsewhere.

I'm somewhat agnostic as to the involvement of JtR in the graphito. It certainly would make things more interesting if he had done it.


What we do know is that the police were extremely sloppy in handling and providing details concerning the layout of the evidence.
Was the graffito two lines or three?
Warren said that the graffito was visible from the street, others said no.

Since the police were sloppy in these duties, I have doubts as to the meticulous nature of their questioning of the residents.
How many of the tennants spoke english, wanted to open up to the police, or could read the message?
Did the police bring a long an interpreter: someone who spoke Yiddish?

Record the position of the apron, photograph the graffito, get an interpreter and thoroughly ask the tennants, if it should take a few days, as to anyone seeing the graffito ... it being the ripper's work and then immediately washed off, the expectation would be no.
Instead, they probably got mostly quizzical looks and head shrugs, and then gave up once the graffito was gone .... hence, didn't learn anything.

Crime scene 101, but that was too much for them. What can be deduced with the evidence all tainted?

[Patrick Differ]

There were a lot of Jews in Whitechapel, one would have to try very hard to avoid their proximity.
Jews only come into prominence with the double event, particularly if you include the graffito as being authored by the ripper;
otherwise, that theme has no prominence elsewhere.

I'm somewhat agnostic as to the involvement of JtR in the graphito. It certainly would make things more interesting if he had done it.


What we do know is that the police were extremely sloppy in handling and providing details concerning the layout of the evidence.
Was the graffito two lines or three?
Warren said that the graffito was visible from the street, others said no.

Since the police were sloppy in these duties, I have doubts as to the meticulous nature of their questioning of the residents.
How many of the tennants spoke english, wanted to open up to the police, or could read the message?
Did the police bring a long an interpreter: someone who spoke Yiddish?

Record the position of the apron, photograph the graffito, get an interpreter and thoroughly ask the tennants, if it should take a few days, as to anyone seeing the graffito ... it being the ripper's work and then immediately washed off, the expectation would be no.
Instead, they probably got mostly quizzical looks and head shrugs, and then gave up once the graffito was gone .... hence, didn't learn anything.

Crime scene 101, but that was too much for them. What can be deduced with the evidence all tainted?

London was a big city of 5 million in 1888 but the major Jewish Area was in the East End and it strikes me that the killer not only murdered there, picked his victims there but was also able to escape without any detection. It is likely he was from the area because otherwise he risked getting caught and not achieving his ultimate goal of complete mutilation of a woman. As a local he had the advantage over risk. Since Police used beats it seems unlikely that the killer would have risked infiltration into the community and not be seen as an outlier by Police. Just a guess but that seems logical.

The immigrant Jews were always the primary focus of the Authorities either because of bias, witnesses like Long or the Leather Apron event initially, but collectively with the murders of Chapman, Stride and Eddowes all having a Jewish component. Long with Chapman, the Working Mens Club with Stride ( also close to the Lipski event), and the Apron ( actual physical evidence) to the predominantly Jewish Wentworth Dwellings.

Why was it that only the Eddowes murder took place in the London City police jurisdiction and all others in Metro? Did the killer, having just murdered Eddowes make a mistake in his lust to finish the job interrupted with Stride? Did the killer need to draw the attention to Metro and off of himself living in London City? That would make sense if he was a local and knew how the Police operated. Or in this case how London and Metro were disconnected in terms of coordination.

Mary Kelly was killed in Metro. The same hunting grounds and kill zone as all the victims except Eddowes.

Its not clear whether the GSG and Apron are connected. But if not it is the most bizarre coincidence in the case.

Why did the killer who was murdering women in Metro suddenly kill a woman in London after being interrupted just an hour before in Metro? The bigger question might be where did the killer go after Tabrum, Nichols, Chapman and Stride?
DId he go North, South, East or West? I think Eddowes tells us that. I think he was going West to London City where he lived.

The dropping of the Apron makes sense if this is the case. Would the killer not want to draw attention " away" from himself? Im going back to Metro. If true then the killer would meet the geographic location probability in an FBI profile.

Imagine the killer trying to draw attention away from himself after killing Eddowes and the affects of that act and the GSG.

The Apron being deposited in Metro. Therefore the killer lives in Metro. But depisits and returns to London somewhere between Goulston and Mitre Square. He isnt about to be caught on the streets.

The GSG is either an implication of Jews for something, a taunt that is possibly driven by motive for a false conviction or a red herring. Was it an accusation of immigrant Jews living in Metro? An accusation by a fellow Jew is improbable therefore the killer is a gentile living in Metro.

The killer returned to Metro to kill Mary Kelly. Again a Jew is implicated by Hutchinson.

The Police obviously have no idea who the killer is at this point. Or do they? The focus at this point in the case moves from Metro to London City and specifically to Butchers Row. According to Detective Robert Sagar they have their man. Sagar is the best in class, medically trained, an eyewitness after the fact, the case liason to Metro.

The man working on or doing business on Butchers Row and being watched. He is returning to his brother or brother in laws house which is also being watched. He eventually gets put into an asylum and not long after dies from syphilis. The books are closed.

The events of September 30th tells a story that i believe carries through up until early to 1890 when the killer is taken off the streets. Basically 18 months.

Al Capone died of syphillis and during his last year of retirement he ended up having the mind of a 12 year old. He deserved the Electric Chair.

Who was Sagars man and where did he live? Likely in London City somewhere between Mitre Square, Middlesex and Butchers Row on Aldgate at the intersection of Middlesex Street.

That the shameless Screenplay anyway..Lol

[Newbie]

London was a big city of 5 million in 1888 but the major Jewish Area was in the East End and it strikes me that the killer not only murdered there, picked his victims there but was also able to escape without any detection. It is likely he was from the area because otherwise he risked getting caught and not achieving his ultimate goal of complete mutilation of a woman. As a local he had the advantage over risk. Since Police used beats it seems unlikely that the killer would have risked infiltration into the community and not be seen as an outlier by Police. Just a guess but that seems logical.

The immigrant Jews were always the primary focus of the Authorities either because of bias, witnesses like Long or the Leather Apron event initially, but collectively with the murders of Chapman, Stride and Eddowes all having a Jewish component. Long with Chapman, the Working Mens Club with Stride ( also close to the Lipski event), and the Apron ( actual physical evidence) to the predominantly Jewish Wentworth Dwellings.

Why was it that only the Eddowes murder took place in the London City police jurisdiction and all others in Metro? Did the killer, having just murdered Eddowes make a mistake in his lust to finish the job interrupted with Stride? Did the killer need to draw the attention to Metro and off of himself living in London City? That would make sense if he was a local and knew how the Police operated. Or in this case how London and Metro were disconnected in terms of coordination.

Mary Kelly was killed in Metro. The same hunting grounds and kill zone as all the victims except Eddowes.

Its not clear whether the GSG and Apron are connected. But if not it is the most bizarre coincidence in the case.

Why did the killer who was murdering women in Metro suddenly kill a woman in London after being interrupted just an hour before in Metro? The bigger question might be where did the killer go after Tabrum, Nichols, Chapman and Stride?
DId he go North, South, East or West? I think Eddowes tells us that. I think he was going West to London City where he lived.

The dropping of the Apron makes sense if this is the case. Would the killer not want to draw attention " away" from himself? Im going back to Metro. If true then the killer would meet the geographic location probability in an FBI profile.

Imagine the killer trying to draw attention away from himself after killing Eddowes and the affects of that act and the GSG.

The Apron being deposited in Metro. Therefore the killer lives in Metro. But depisits and returns to London somewhere between Goulston and Mitre Square. He isnt about to be caught on the streets.

The GSG is either an implication of Jews for something, a taunt that is possibly driven by motive for a false conviction or a red herring. Was it an accusation of immigrant Jews living in Metro? An accusation by a fellow Jew is improbable therefore the killer is a gentile living in Metro.

The killer returned to Metro to kill Mary Kelly. Again a Jew is implicated by Hutchinson.

The Police obviously have no idea who the killer is at this point. Or do they? The focus at this point in the case moves from Metro to London City and specifically to Butchers Row. According to Detective Robert Sagar they have their man. Sagar is the best in class, medically trained, an eyewitness after the fact, the case liason to Metro.

The man working on or doing business on Butchers Row and being watched. He is returning to his brother or brother in laws house which is also being watched. He eventually gets put into an asylum and not long after dies from syphilis. The books are closed.

The events of September 30th tells a story that i believe carries through up until early to 1890 when the killer is taken off the streets. Basically 18 months.

Al Capone died of syphillis and during his last year of retirement he ended up having the mind of a 12 year old. He deserved the Electric Chair.

Who was Sagars man and where did he live? Likely in London City somewhere between Mitre Square, Middlesex and Butchers Row on Aldgate at the intersection of Middlesex Street.

That the shameless Screenplay anyway..Lol

I'm not as focused on the invisible line between jurisdictions Patrick.

As for where he went:
1. Tabrum? not sure if this was a ripper murder
2. Nichol's? to work .... assuming that he failed to achieve what he wanted and would have wanted to hunt some more if not on a schedule
3. Chapman? not perfectly clear
4. Stride? to mitre square
5. Eddowes? to a bolt hole
6. Goulston graffito? - home .... further northward (from mitre square) up goulston/bell lane or further westward (from mitre square)along Wentworth.
7. MJK? - home

My problem with Middlesex street and butcher's row, after the Eddowes murder, is why didn't he just head up middlesex once fleeing mitre square, Watkins patrolling to the east, or coming up mitre square when JtR fled the scene. Surely, if he didn't know the route, Eddowes would have tipped him off ... JtR pumping her for information before the murder. And why the long delay, given the circumstances surrounding the discovery of the bloody apron?