The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Ben,

If you wanted to find Jews awake and active in the small hours because you were a serial killer who knew that Jews were getting the blame...

...you could have gone practically anywhere to the east of Middx Street to the extent of a mile, in any one of three compass directions.

youu were likely to find them near the Imperial Club

If you'd heard of it, or guessed that something called the "Imperial" Club would be frequented by any other than Times-reading, moustachioed Englishmen.

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

...you could have gone practically anywhere to the east of Middx Street to the extent of a mile, in any one of three compass directions

Not if you wanted to be guaranteed of a small, localized noctunal population of Jewish men. For that, the obvious venues to make a beeline for would have been the clubs.

If you'd heard of it, or guessed that something called the "Imperial" Club would be frequented by any other than Times-reading, moustachioed Englishmen.

And you were likely to have known of it if you knew the area well. If Jack recognised the advantage of Jew-scapegoating wherever it was possible and easy to acheieve (in addition to his other, more pressing motivations), the IWEC was obviously more preferable to the Imperial, which is why he went there first.

This is taking us away from the meaning of the GSG somewhat!

Regards,
Ben

[Rosey O'Ryan]

Hi Mitch,
An interesting thought! But can you push it through the barrier, i.e. think out of the box. I will be watching.
Rosey -

[claire]

It occurs to me that if JtR was aware of his apron dump site (and, possibly, the GSG location), then there probably *is* a greater chance that he was Jewish himself. When I lived in Stamford Hill, I didn't have the first clue where to find Jewish anything at all. I'd stumble across the odd thing, but because they meant nothing to my day to day life, I never committed them to memory. The very fact of knowing the location and its connections to one element of the area's Jewish population speaks to me that whoever did the dumping was more likely to either be Jewish or very closely connected to them.

Further, whilst JtR certainly evaded detection (and, hey, don't we know it?!), this doesn't mean that he wasn't proud of his actions and wanted, in some sense, to have some recognition for them. 'Scapegoating' to a completely different section of society to his own doesn't tally with this. The exception to this would be if he felt that the police were sniffing around and getting close(r) to catching him...so what gentile suspect(s) was already in the frame?

[Ben]

Hi Claire,

Further, whilst JtR certainly evaded detection (and, hey, don't we know it?!), this doesn't mean that he wasn't proud of his actions and wanted, in some sense, to have some recognition for them. 'Scapegoating' to a completely different section of society to his own doesn't tally with this.

I respectfully disagree.

It tallies very well.

One can be proud of one's actions and still take advantage of a generic scapegoat if there's one available, especially if sustaining the focus in the wrong direction increased the likelihood of him remaining uncaught and "proud" of his actions for some time to come. There's a difference between pride in one's "work" and incriminating oneself.

The very fact of knowing the location and its connections to one element of the area's Jewish population speaks to me that whoever did the dumping was more likely to either be Jewish or very closely connected to them.

...Or living in very close proxmity to them and acutely aware of their presence in the district. The killer may not have known necessarily which shops were Jewish, but there's a stronger likelihood of him knowing where the Jews congregated in the small hours, especially if he was regularly on the prowl himself at that time.

Best regards,
Ben

[claire]

Hi Ben,

I agree your scenarios are perfectly plausible. I just pause a little because I have this idea that JtR's sprees were quite discrete from the rest of his activities, and so the idea of anti-Semitic 'seepage' seems less attractive to me as a theory. Of course, my idea completely disintegrates if he actually was an out of control madman (in the classic sense of that term), in which case he'd be scattering shot in whichever direction. But, the apron aside, he didn't seem to, did he?

In any case, gentile-Jew relations in the East End have become the stuff of myth by now...so it's hard to disentangle most East End phenomena from any putative relationship with 'the Jewry.' But if we start to wrest JtR loose from analysis informed by a consideration of these relations, I don't think we're necessarily left with a weaker suite of analytical tools. I still think it's perfectly plausible that he didn't give a monkey's about his Jewish neighbours and worked quite autonomously from them.

[Ben]

Hi Claire,

Just to be clear; I agree that there's no compelling reason to suppose that the killer was any more anti-semitic than the average gentile Eastender. When he wasn't committing murder, it is indeed "perfectly plausible that he didn't give a monkey's about his Jewish neighbours". There is a crucial difference, however, between taking advantage of anti-semitism when it is in one's best interests to do so, and being anti-semetic onesself. When Reg Christie tried - or rather succeeded - in pinning the blame on the hapless Evans, he did so in the interest of self-preservation, not because he harboured any special hatred or dislike for the other man.

Best regards,
Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

We know for certain that the IWMEC was a focus of revolutionary thinking, that it was home to a radical press, had influential speakers give speeches on its premises, and - furthermore - that it had a reputation for these things. The Imperial Club carried no such baggage; indeed, by it's very name it suggests a cozying-up to the monarchy that no radical socialist would countenance in a million years - which, by the way was almost exactly 500,000 times longer than the Imperial Club had been in existence.

With all due respect, Sam, I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

With all due respect, Sam, I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

...I must be losing my touch, Tom

[claire]

Hi Ben,
You're probably right, of course. I was just tossing round alternatives on a slow day

[Tom_Wescott]

...I must be losing my touch, Tom

We're all friends here, so your occassional moments of clarity will not be held against you.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

A truely momentous day...till Sam invades Georgia.

Monty

[Sam Flynn]

A truely momentous day...till Sam invades Georgia.

...I've got my Scarlett o'Hara crinoline, and I'm ready to roll!

[Fisherman]

This must be the first time ever that we´we touched on the possibility to state that the Butler dunnit!

The best,
Fisherman

[Monty]

Im more inclinde to think Blakey did it....aaaw gawd, made my day that has!