The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[DVV]

The theory, if one,has been spoken of several times.
The idea is that antisemitism grew up because of the murders (Leather Apron), and that the graffito would mean "Don't blame the Jews, they've done no wrong".

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

Wickster,

Just that I think JTR may have read and understood the message, but maybe not in a way some others understand it. I think it rang true to him, and in a 'You want to blame us? Here's mud in yer eye" kind of way.

Mike

[perrymason]

Im not sure why people are so easily dismissing the obvious literal translations, of which there is at least one good one....

"The Juwes (Jews) are not the men that will be blamed for nothing."

There is good reason for blaming the male Jews.

Which males Jews? Well there were approximately 28 to 30 male Jews onsite at a Jewish Mens Club that same night when a murder is committed in their yard.

Since Warren was pretty sure that no casual passer by would read that with the nights events in mind, rather as a broad accusation against ALL Jews, .. he ordered it removed.

Best regards all.

[Wickerman]

Wickster,

Just that I think JTR may have read and understood the message, but maybe not in a way some others understand it. I think it rang true to him, and in a 'You want to blame us? Here's mud in yer eye" kind of way.

Mike

Mike.
So you suggest this fleeing villian ran up and down the streets reading any gariffiti with a view to depositing the apron near something applicable?

[The Good Michael]

Mike.
So you suggest this fleeing villian ran up and down the streets reading any gariffiti with a view to depositing the apron near something applicable?

No, I do not. Think about it. I saw a bumper sticker several years ago that read, "Frodo failed. Bush has the ring." That became nearly my motto. I didn't seek it out. The car passed me. I really liked it. It summarized everything I felt about the election and the failure of the American people to actually try to make a change in the world. 6 words, and they meant a lot to me.

Mike

[Dark Dylan]

hey, first time caller long time listener. by far the most plausible meaning of the graffiti has been floated by John Douglas, that it was just that graffiti. His idea is that it happened to be there, and that it was a criticism of say, a Jewish shopkeeper and his shoddy merchandise meaning the Jews wont take responsibility for anything etc.? there were many Jewish run shops in the area. A most sensible conclusion imo

[The Good Michael]

hey, first time caller long time listener. by far the most plausible meaning of the graffiti has been floated by John Douglas, that it was just that graffiti. His idea is that it happened to be there, and that it was a criticism of say, a Jewish shopkeeper and his shoddy merchandise meaning the Jews wont take responsibility for anything etc.? there were many Jewish run shops in the area. A most sensible conclusion imo

I completely disagree. In a heavily Jewish populated building, it would have taken a braver man than I to sit down and write neat, disparaging graffiti. A Jewish solidarity writing would not cause a local eye to be batted.

Mike

[harry]

Coincidental or what,but the next murder in the series has a Jewish suspect placed in the company of the victim.Something to think about.

[Pippin Joan]

The word 'boss' was all but unheard of in England at the time, and yet..

The term "boss" was an Americanism and had been appropriated from the Dutch New Yorkers as a way of addressing an employer or leader. If the "Dear Boss" letter is a hoax, it seeks to connect the crimes with a foreigner, perhaps a sailor from America.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Pippin,

The term "boss" had been in use in England before 1888 - it's hard to tell when, but since it turns up in "respectable" published British literature in 1887 (Charles Dickens junior), it's a safe bet that it had been in vernacular use long before then.

[Wickerman]

Hi Pippin,

The term "boss" had been in use in England before 1888 - it's hard to tell when, but since it turns up in "respectable" published British literature in 1887 (Charles Dickens junior), it's a safe bet that it had been in vernacular use long before then.

In fact, when researching the history of Mathew Hopkins (aka Witchfinder General), I came across period writings which did use the term 'Boss'. It has all but phased out in England but was kept alive in the New World by their Pilgrim Fathers.
I think it was rather common in East Anglia and thereabouts..

Regards, Jon.S

[Wickerman]

No, I do not. Think about it. I saw a bumper sticker several years ago that read, "Frodo failed. Bush has the ring." That became nearly my motto. I didn't seek it out. The car passed me. I really liked it. It summarized everything I felt about the election and the failure of the American people to actually try to make a change in the world. 6 words, and they meant a lot to me.
Mike

Ok Mike, yes I was being facetious.
You see, first you said the killer didn't write it, but then you said he saw it and read it.
So, we might be left to conclude that he either lived on the street and knew that it existed and dropped it beneath it on purpose or, that he searched the streets for a specific bit of graffiti, neither option seems practical to me.

That being the case then, I would say obviously the killer hadn't read it and likely didn't even know it was there. Considering the various reports of graffiti scrawled over walls and doors after the Chapman murder I wouldn't be surprised if all kinds of anti-semitic and anti-social graffiti existed on walls and doorways in every street.
This graffiti just happened to be the nearest to the piece of apron.

Regards, Jon.S

[Pippin Joan]

The simplest explanation is probably correct. JTR took a piece of rag away from the scene, wiped his hands as he walked, realized how filthy it was, and ditched it in the entrance to an alley. It was a relatively large piece of cloth, larger than a man's handkerchief, and not something he would stuff in a pocket. He never paid attention to the graffiti which was already there. If JTR had any "clever" thoughts at the time, he possibly ditched the rag in a place not en route to home and walked off in a completely different direction.

Concerning the graffiti, I accept the idea that the writing was "blurred" as if it had been there at least a day or two, and not written within a few hours. The wording has been discussed at length here. Unfortunately, we have the two slightly different recordings -- Halse recorded it as 'The Jews are not the men that will be blamed for nothing' and P.C. Long as 'The Juews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing'. I tend to lean toward Long's version, as he stated that the Inspector checked it with him.

Discussion of the meaning of this graffiti is inconsequential, as I believe it has nothing to do with JTR, but it's still interesting. Here's where I differ from some others in interpreting this message. I don't think it is anti-semitic. As others have indicated, the grammar and spelling strongly suggest a person who does not speak English well. "Juews" or "Juwes" suggests the indecision of someone who thinks of "Juden" and "Jews" and invents a spelling. The double negatives can also be typical of a German-Yiddish person who is confused about English grammar. Rather than being an anti-Jewish remark, I see the statement as a Jewish act of defiance - "The Jews are the people who won't be blamed for anything!" or "The Jews won't take the blame for anything!" Of course, it was confusing to the police who knew that crowds would gather. Rather than assume that the public would dismiss a connection between the rag and the graffiti, they removed it.

[perrymason]

We could easily surmount any issues regarding the blurring, or freshness of the chalked message, but that still doesnt pin it to "Rag Man". Context could, but we have none. So we have literal, or symbolic with no way to provably differentiate to determine the true meaning.

But there is that "context" deal potentially happening with the bloodied cloth and its proximity to the message, and the still on record as approx 70 minutes after the Mitre murder was its first appearance. Co-incidentally its also the cloths. Now adding the 28 singing Jews while Liz dies in their yard element....and you have contextual support, to some degree.

For myself anyway, the spelling is pure semi literate, school trained Gentile, so if it was Jack, its a signifigant clue I believe.

Best regards all.


late edit: If the killer left the cloth after writing the message, then it can only be for authentication of the author, its value is really only that the killer is assumed to have transported it to Goulston.
Thats providing....context.

[The Good Michael]

One thing to remember is that graffiti was relatively rare, and one with neat, 3/4" handwriting would have been next to impossible to find. The idea of the apron being left by that particular bit of writing, in an area where it was a rarity, surely must weigh the argument in the direction of intentional placement.
Coincidences do happen, and I'm sure that we could all dredge up something even more starkly coincidental. Yet, likelihood must be in the direction of foreknowledge about the GSG.

Mike