The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Natalie Severn]

Well Mike,it really does depend on the nature of the killer.I think JtR was a pretty cold fish , very cool and quite mad.So it could fit.

[The Good Michael]

Natalie,

The problem I have with your scenario of him writing the graffiti then, was that there is an impression, debatable of course, of JTR having been in a hurry to get away. This may not have been true, and he could have had the time to nonchalantly jot down a few words, especially if he was home and feeling safer. The idea of a possible adrenaline junkie writing small, precise, and neatly so soon after committing butchery, indicates a mind that is capable of a startlingly quick cooldown. This is beyond the ken of many of us.

Mike

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Monty,
I havent yet seen a specific reference to the Wentworth Dwellings as such but that area as you rightly say was cleared and the money for rebuilding the dwellings/tenements blocks. provided by Rothschild for poor but respectable Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.
Clearly there were Irish and local East Enders nearby,as evidenced by the Victoria Home lodging house at corner of Wentworth/Commercial Streets -such as Hutchinson and Fleming stayed in .
Had he slipped into Mitre Street and gone left after the murder,he could have passed PC Watkins as he came up it towards Mitre Square.But had he slipped into Mitre street and turned right, he might have just avoided PC Watkins and made his way round Bevis Marks Houndsditch etc until he reached Goulston Street.
He seems to have paused in Goulston Street -maybe he only wiped his hands on that apron piece and threw it down.But my view is that he paused,threw down the cloth after wiping his hands and then wrote the graffiti.I still think he meant to include the Berner street Jewish club -------he could have been trying to throw blame on the this part of the Jewish community but he could also have been saying it was him [or his higher power -the voice giving him commands] was responsible for these killings----not a Jewish person....

[Monty]

Many thanks Norma,

I always though they were built as part of a regeneration plan for the area rather than specifically for the Jewish people.

I was wondering if census returns for later years (as they were only built a year or so prior to the murders) would show a predominantly Jewish dwelling.

Monty

[Natalie Severn]

And do we have evidence that the Dwelling was predominantly occupied by Jews?

Monty

Hi Monty!

Jerry White, in his book "Rothschild Buildings" points out that that dwellings were in the heart of Jewish Whitechapel and that they were built for poor but respectable Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.
Best
Norma

[Monty]

Dear Monty:

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment:

The writings location near to the apron ensured the right and proper thing to do was to investigate it.-Monty Cristo

And indeed they did,brudda.

As they did the apron and envelope piece at the Chapman scene, The Burrell ticket at the Eddowes scene and the bonnet at Coles.

Nowt sinister in that.


And do we have evidence that the Dwelling was predominantly occupied by Jews?

Monty

[Howard Brown]

We sure did discuss that Sammy...and if the writing was on the jamb by the door leading to the cellar, it would not have lasted long considering all the Jewish people who lived in the Wentworth.

Hello again,

The mentioning of the height of that dado to around 4 feet sounds to me like the height one would be if on one knee, or bent over. If it was an adult that wrote it, he would have almost had to be bent or kneeling. Has anyone considered that Jack didnt throw the section against a wall, that he instead knelt and placed it then wrote on the dado.

If that section did carry organs, it might be infused with some sense of meaning beyond its utility for the killer, or maybe just tossing it isnt really his style. Since it is the ONLY instance where we have a piece of evidence from a Ripper crime scene taken and then discarded elsewhere where it would be found.

I started a thread a long time ago called Singular Occurrances, The Double Event....and I can recall somewhere near 20 instances like the apron section where this night deviated from prior Ripper crimes, and the subsequent one. Included in that list was the fact that no other Ripper murder night included so much evidence that was provided by local Jews, is it really any surprise to anyone that the graffito concerned Jews also?

Since many of the Jews of that night were socialists, and some may well have met some police close up at rallys or marches like Bloody Sunday,..... did they just tell the truth and respect the law at Berner Street, or did they tell stories and/or manipulate witnesses?

What did they really care about Liz, or Jack for that matter, if they had been suspected as being the "men" that actually killed Liz, their club would be closed and likely many or all members would be questioned at length....the police were looking for an excuse with this club in particular. There are quotes police felt it was an Anarchists Club.

Yet, after a few hours and a site inspection, the notion it might be one of the members had faded away, and Jack replaced them as possible murderer. Why? Because the members convinced the Police that none of them were in the yard at the time,.....a claim that is addressed directly by the neighbours claims that there was often noise in the yard after a meeting, usually until past 1am, and men of low character were often in attendance.....which would make a lingering street whores behaviour a but more understandable. But they just said it was empty..... "Cause they were not the men that would be blamed for nuffin."

Best regards all.

[Howard Brown]

Dear Monty:

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment:

The writings location near to the apron ensured the right and proper thing to do was to investigate it.-Monty Cristo

And indeed they did,brudda.

[Sam Flynn]

It wouldn't have been too fresh or noteworthy,Wick...since it rained that evening...if it had been on there long.

...and if the rain happened to have smacked into that particular patch of brick, How. As we've discussed previously, if the surface on which the graffito was written was in any way shaded from the rain (especially if it were "upwind" of it) then the chalk could have remained comparatively dry for hours on end.

[Howard Brown]

"The size of the capital letters would be about ¾ in, and the other letters were in proportion."- transcription of the October 12th Daily Telegraph, here on Casebook.

"The capital letters about three quarters of an inch high..." from page 499 of The Complete JTR by Phil Sugden...of the same newspaper account.

Dear Wickerman:

What we need to see to put your mind at ease is the original newspaper.

However,my mind is at ease,daddio. Mr. Sugden appears to have written the words out as they appeared in the DT...whereas its likely that the transcriber of the Casebook version of the statement abbreviated that part of the sentence as one will ordinarily do when it comes to writing down fractions.

I agree with you that IF the GSG was really 3 to 4 inches high,then that would be an estimate. However,as usual, I am right, and the Sugden version is more likely to have been the exact way it was written.

Even the Casebook version is an approximation,Wick. It says "about 3/4 of an inch high". Some people can look at objects and estimate their size as my main man Halse did. Halse stayed there with the G while Hunt went a'huntin' for more policemen. Halse didn't have a tape measure,but his observations are the best of anyone's.

It wouldn't have been too fresh or noteworthy,Wick...since it rained that evening...if it had been on there long.

[Wickerman]

Just a minute...Sam!
You left the last line out..

A juror - How did you account for its being recent? - Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion. The bricks are painted black up to about four feet high, like a dado, and above that are white.

I thought Scott was joking...4 feet from the ground?, thats why it was described as "schoolboy-hand".

[Wickerman]

....."Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."[/INDENT][/INDENT]..."would be under an inch" being the operative phrase. ...

Can't argue with that, ..win-some, ..lose-some.
Thanks for that Sam.

[Scott Nelson]

"...in good schoolboy's handwriting." It couldn't be more obvious. It was written by a schoolboy. I have an idea of who.

[Sam Flynn]

Nope, if the principal characters really had been 3/4" tall we would just have read they were about 1" tall.

Unfortunately, Jon, at least one newspaper inquest transcript (the London Daily News of 12th Oct 1888), gives us just that:

[A juror] "How did you account for its being recent?"

[Halse] "Because it seemed fresh, and if it had been long written it would have been rubbed by people passing. It was written on the black brick in good schoolboy's handwriting. The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."

..."would be under an inch" being the operative phrase. The words differ subtly from the usual accounts, and this transcript adds further detail than most, which suggests that the reporter from the Daily News might not have been using the same scribbled (and purportedly ambiguous) copy as perhaps the others did, but his own notes. If so, this is an independent account of what went on, seemingly supporting the ¾" interpretation.

Either that, or Halse was reading from his notes and couldn't read his own scribble - which is, I suppose, possible.