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  • The **** are the men.

    Dear all,

    Watching Ripper Street last night got me thinking. In the programme when the anti semitic graffiti appeared around Whitechapel, the words used to describe the Jews were all derogatory and offensive.

    With apologies for using those words, they were saying things like "Kike" and "Yids" etc to describe them.

    Linking this with Martin Fido's view that the graffiti was just a disgruntled customer moaning that a Jewish trader wouldn't give him a refund or some other slight and it was just by chance that the piece of apron appeared at that point, wouldn't an angry Eastender expressing their anger use one of the words above instead of the polite "Jews?"

    If we assume that a truly disgruntled customer wouldn't hold back and would write "Those Y*d ba****ds" or "Robbing K***s" instead of a nice polite "The Jews," does that lend support to the idea that the graffiti was put there by somebody else?

    Ultimately leading to the question of whether it could have been put there by the Ripper?

    Any thoughts?

    regards,
    Last edited by Tecs; 12-03-2013, 01:10 PM.
    If I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

  • #2
    Interesting point, Tecs. Could it simply have been that the writer simply wanted to get his message across clearly? Slang may have been misunderstood by most of his intended targets, given that there was a strong possibility of their being immigrant Jews. Even the most recently arrived non-English speaking immigrant would recognise the "Ju-" prefix, and surmise that the graffito was saying something about them.

    It's notable that even the most anti-Semitic society of modern times, the Third Reich, tended to use the "polite" form of Jude(n) in their racist graffiti.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      Interesting point, Tecs. Could it simply have been that the writer simply wanted to get his message across clearly? Slang may have been misunderstood by most of his intended targets, given that there was a strong possibility of their being immigrant Jews. Even the most recently arrived non-English speaking immigrant would recognise the "Ju-" prefix, and surmise that the graffito was saying something about them.

      It's notable that even the most anti-Semitic society of modern times, the Third Reich, tended to use the "polite" form of Jude(n) in their racist graffiti.
      I submit Sam that the crux of the message caught the attention of the police, a shame the exact spelling of the message wasnt as important to them to record verbatim. We have at least 3 versions of the spelling of Jews.

      The way it was written might have revealed something about the ethnicity of the author.

      Cheers Sam
      Michael Richards

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
        I submit Sam that the crux of the message caught the attention of the police, a shame the exact spelling of the message wasnt as important to them to record verbatim. We have at least 3 versions of the spelling of Jews.

        The way it was written might have revealed something about the ethnicity of the author.

        Cheers Sam
        Infinitely frustrating that there was no consistency in the recording of the exact wording and spelling - something a photograph would have resolved of course. 'Jew' was a common enough word in the East End and it seems strange that only that one word was misspelt. I'm left wondering if the writer's first language wasn't English and he started writing Juden or Juifs before belatedly attempting a correction. Perhaps the blurring of the words described by one officer (was it Halse?) was an unsuccessful attempt to correct a spelling error?
        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
          I submit Sam that the crux of the message caught the attention of the police, a shame the exact spelling of the message wasnt as important to them to record verbatim. We have at least 3 versions of the spelling of Jews.

          The way it was written might have revealed something about the ethnicity of the author.

          Cheers Sam
          More than that. No two people recorded the sentence the same. And I believe it's highly possible that the second word was NOT any sort of version of 'Jews'. Bottom line, a photo should have been taken. But that's all ale under the railway arch now, I suppose.

          Yours truly,

          Tom Wescott

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
            ... Perhaps the blurring of the words described by one officer (was it Halse?) was an unsuccessful attempt to correct a spelling error?
            Swanson.
            Best Wishes,
            Hunter
            ____________________________________________

            When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

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            • #7
              What were the common British slurs for Jews back then, other than Lipski of course?

              I would expect a 19th century American anti-semite to say something like "yid" or "heeb" or even "feeny" rather than the k-word, which strikes me as more modern.
              Last edited by Damaso Marte; 12-03-2013, 10:19 PM.

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              • #8
                I can only refer back to older members of my family,who, without intending any real slur, always referred to "Jew-Boys"............

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hunter View Post
                  Swanson.
                  I stand corrected. (Shouldn't rely on memory at my age!).
                  "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    After just committing two murders in a very short space of time our killer decides to write a message however he makes absolutely no reference to what he's just down.Our killer has gone to the trouble of taking some chalk with him so why not leave a message that can leave not doubt it is from him and write the message in a place where everyone can see it.
                    Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                      After just committing two murders in a very short space of time our killer decides to write a message however he makes absolutely no reference to what he's just down.Our killer has gone to the trouble of taking some chalk with him so why not leave a message that can leave not doubt it is from him and write the message in a place where everyone can see it.
                      London is one third chalk. A chalk stone snatched off the ground would have sufficed.

                      Tom: Ale under the railway arch? Not only do I not understand that particular idiomatic expression, I don't understand it so hard that my head hurts now.
                      The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Errata View Post

                        Tom: Ale under the railway arch? Not only do I not understand that particular idiomatic expression, I don't understand it so hard that my head hurts now.
                        A Ripperological way of saying 'water under the bridge'.

                        Yours truly,

                        Tom Wescott

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                        • #13
                          I read it as a reference to the torso killings. The torso killer must have gone to his grave with a deep and abiding hatred for Jack the Ripper, who stole all of his thunder and fame while being less technically proficient!

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                          • #14
                            An interesting post Damaso Marte. The Torso killer may well have wished for the infamy of Jack the Ripper but on the other hand he went to great lengths to make sure the majority of his victims were never identified and thus he would be less likely to be identified.

                            Cheers John

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                            • #15
                              Dear all,

                              Thanks for the replies.

                              The truth is we could debate the GSG forever and still end up back where we started.

                              One point to note though is the idea that the killer would not hang around unneccessarily writing nonsense on a wall when his life depended on it.

                              But it seems that he did exactly that, in a tighter spot at Mitre Square when he inflicted the totally unneccessary cuts on Catherine's face, eyelids nicked through etc. If you consider that, then his hanging around the wall writing the message perhaps was not that dangerous if he felt that in a moment he could throw the chalk away and walk off unconnected to the graffiti. Or quickly enter one of the nearby doors? And didn't one of Kosminski's relatives allegedly live in one?

                              regards,
                              If I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

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