piece of apron

[Fisherman]

I posted an option 4, albeit added a short while after my original post, just one minute before you posted a reply to my options mentioning it could have been overlooked. How bizarre!

It´s a bizarre world, El - hadn´t you noticed? I do, however, put some faith in Longs assertions that the rag was not there as he passed the doorway the first time. He is kind of adamant about it.

All the best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

scenarios

Hello Thomas. Thanks.

Your timeline seems flawless.

"1. The ripper hid in the area/close to the area between Mitre Square and GS."

Very well. Why is he waiting? Why not go home straightaway?

"That there was some safe house/hideout available."

This needs to be dovetailed with the other killings--provided, of course, you are a soloist.

"2. Returned to the area within the 1hour+ to leave the apron there."

You answer well below.

"Seemingly unlikely and illogical given the police presence at risk levels."

"3. It was planted by a third party. Enter the many conspiracy theories."

Although I don't care for conspiracies, for the usual reasons, I cannot derail a line of thought, simply for this reason.

"4.The apron was in the archway of the Wentworth dwellings much earlier than it was found and was overlooked during that time."

This satisfies the time anomaly, but not the DISTANCE one. The cloth should not be where it was.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

2

Hello (again) Thomas. Thanks.

"The first two killings being WHICH exact TWO victims of the many Whitechapel Murders?"

Polly and Annie.

Cheers.
LC

[El White Chap]

It´s a bizarre world, El - hadn´t you noticed? I do, however, put some faith in Longs assertions that the rag was not there as he passed the doorway the first time. He is kind of adamant about it.

All the best,
Fisherman

What with all the hysteria in the air caused by the fresh news coming from Berner Street, it would be quite plausible would it not, for the P.C. to have overlooked the doorway in its entirety. When under pressure, being completely thorough can be somewhat challenging. I haven't yet come across any information stating if the P.C. was already aware of news from Berner Street, do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?.
Going on the assumption he was informed, could that news have influenced the way in which he 'combed' his beat area? Looking for an assailant on the streets and checking each crevice off the streets (door archways etc etc) would be different altogether with the 'alarm bells' of murder ringing in the air, when compared to an unalarmed beat combing.

[lynn cates]

obvious

Hello (yet again) Thomas. Thanks.

"obvious to me but wasn't sure about others"

That is the way it is beginning to feel about the WCM in general. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

PC Long was a draft.

Monty

[Fisherman]

"1. The ripper hid in the area/close to the area between Mitre Square and GS."

Very well. Why is he waiting? Why not go home straightaway?

LC

I think we may need to add the element of brushing up here. He may have been soiled and taken the opportunity to clean up somewhat. He may also have had access to some place to hide the innards - if they were trophies.

All the best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

when?

Hello Thomas.

"do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?"

According to Long's statement at inquest, it seems he found out about Liz:

1. after he found the apron/graffito

but

2. Before going to the station and leaving another constable in charge.

("The Ultimate" p. 214. His phrasing is slightly ambiguous.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

you're drafted

Hello Neil. Yes. From A division, if I recall properly?

Cheers.
LC

[El White Chap]

Very well. Why is he waiting? Why not go home straightaway?

Cleaning oneself in the sanctuary of the indoors perhaps. Taking time to bath in the adrenaline of the recent kill. There could be many plausible reasons.

Although I don't care for conspiracies, for the usual reasons, I cannot derail a line of thought, simply for this reason.

I'm not ruling anything out, as long as it's possible it must be considered viable.

This satisfies the time anomaly, but not the DISTANCE one. The cloth should not be where it was.

Why should the piece of apron not be where it was? I take your earlier point that to logically minimise risk of being caught, it should have been left at the scene of the crime or close to it. However, this was the work of someone/somebodies (depending on which you subscribe) who on the whole did their 'work' right out in the public eye where the risks of being seen, heard, interrupted were very high. Right out on the street. Taking a piece of apron a few streets on is hardly that much more of a risk when you're already showcasing your murderous ways in the publics own cobble corridors.

[lynn cates]

Clothes brush or close brush?

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"I think we may need to add the element of brushing up here."

Brush? Thought that was Liz? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello Thomas.

"do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?"

According to Long's statement at inquest, it seems he found out about Liz:

1. after he found the apron/graffito

but

2. Before going to the station and leaving another constable in charge.

("The Ultimate" p. 214. His phrasing is slightly ambiguous.)

Cheers.
LC

Also, Det Halse went through Goulston St at about 2.20 and he had come straight from Mitre Sq.
How would PC Long have known about the murder before 2.20.

[lynn cates]

the main tissue

Hello (again) Thomas. Thanks.

"Taking a piece of apron a few streets on is hardly that much more of a risk when you're already showcasing your murderous ways in the public's own cobble corridors."

But there is no good reason to hold on to it. It should be discarded when finished.

To illustrate. You have a runny nose and find a tissue. Do you:

1. Look for a dust bin in which to discard it?

or

2. Hold it in your palm and play with it for a quarter hour?

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

What with all the hysteria in the air caused by the fresh news coming from Berner Street, it would be quite plausible would it not, for the P.C. to have overlooked the doorway in its entirety. When under pressure, being completely thorough can be somewhat challenging. I haven't yet come across any information stating if the P.C. was already aware of news from Berner Street, do we know if he was in the know already about Liz?.
Going on the assumption he was informed, could that news have influenced the way in which he 'combed' his beat area? Looking for an assailant on the streets and checking each crevice off the streets (door archways etc etc) would be different altogether with the 'alarm bells' of murder ringing in the air, when compared to an unalarmed beat combing.

Here´s what you need to know, El:

"By Mr. Crawford. - The moment he found the piece of apron he searched the staircases leading to the building. He did make any inquiry of the inmates in the tenements. There were either six or seven staircases, one leading down, and the others upstairs. He searched every staircase, and could find no trace of blood or any recent footmarks. He found the apron at five minutes to 3, and when he searched the staircases it would be about 3 o'clock. Having searched the staircases he at once proceeded to the police-station. Before proceeding to the station he had heard that a murder had been committed in Mitre-square. When he started for the police-station he left Police-constable 190 H in charge of the building. He did not know the constable's name; he was a member of the Metropolitan Police. Witness told him to keep observation on the dwelling, to see whether any one left or entered it. Witness next returned to the building at 5 o'clock. The writing was rubbed out in witness's presence at half-past 5, or thereabouts. He heard no one object to the writing being rubbed out.

A juryman. - Having heard of the murder, and having afterwards found the piece of apron with blood on it and the writing on the wall, did it not strike you that it would be well to make some examination of the rooms in the building? You say you searched all the passages, but you would not expect that the man who had committed the murder would hide himself there. Witness. - Seeing the blood there, I thought that the murder had been committed, and that the body might be placed in the building.

The juryman. - You did not search the rooms, but left a man to watch the building, and the whole clue seems to have passed away. I do not wish to say anything harsh, as I consider that the evidence of yourself and of the other members of the police redounds to the credit of all of you; but this does seem a point that requires a little investigation. You find a piece of apron wet with blood; you search all the passages, and then you leave the building in the care of a man to watch the front. Witness. - I thought the best thing I could do was to go to the station and report the matter to the inspector on duty.

The juryman. - I feel sure you did your best.

Mr. Crawford. - May we take it that you thought you would be more likely to find the body of the murdered person there than the assassin? Witness. - Yes.

By a juryman. - Witness was a stranger in the neighbourhood. No one could have gone out of the front part of the building without being seen by the constable left on the spot by witness."

Long, just like Monty tells you, was drafted in from A-division to help out during the Ripper scare. He was let go from the police force due to being drunk on his job some time later. How good a witness he is is anybody´s guess. He may have tried to cover for his own failure to find the rag on the first occasion he passed the building, we will never know. But he does press the point that the rag was not there fairly hard, and to my mind he could just as well have said that it may have been, and that he could have overlooked it in the darkness.
My money is therefore on him being truthful about this.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

when?

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"and also that Det Halse went through Goulston St at about 2.20 and he had come straight from Mitre Sq, how would Long have known before 2.20?"

Quite. And it seems Long did not know just then either.

Cheers.
LC