piece of apron

[Wickerman]

... Could have taken quite some time to clean oneself up after causing such a mess, in all likelihood it would have taken several 'stealth intervals' of cleaning.

I tend to envisage this killer needing to wipe himself clean within the first few yards, certainly by the time he crossed St. James Place. A large white rag (estimated to be half the apron), is quite a huge cloth to be seen waving around at night.
If it was only taken to clean himself up I am thinking he needs to distance himself from this rag at the earliest opportunity, preferably the nearer the crime scene the better so as not to leave an indication which way he escaped.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Thomas.

So, if you see him as concerned about the blood, etc. where do you see him carrying the kidney and the uterus?, which most likely was oozing blood.

I think we can forget about the suggestion that the killer took away the organs in the apron piece.

The attached photo shows the result of a uterus having been removed from a live donor and then wrapped up for 20 mins, unraveled and then photographed.

The result is a heavily blood stained piece of cloth, add to that a kidney probably even more bloodstained. The GS piece did not fit that description

[El White Chap]

Hello Thomas.

So, if you see him as concerned about the blood, etc. where do you see him carrying the kidney and the uterus?, which most likely was oozing blood.

I think the ripper came prepared for those, they were trophies which had already been considered somewhat beforehand. It is my belief that preparations were made for these earlier in the form of 'storage devices' or what have you. I've never bought into the theory that the ripper performed the murders 'organically' at each scene, deciding then and there to take something, no no, I don't think so. I'm confident that there was always some plan or motive for each one of the victims thought out in advance, and this became more defined and developed as the C5 went onwards.

Chapman was the first of the C5 who had a trophy taken, her uterus. By the time the ripper came for Kate, he'd already had experience of taking a trophy and was well prepared for the instance with 'storage'.

[Wickerman]

I think we can forget about the suggestion that the killer took away the organs in the apron piece.

The attached photo shows the result of a uterus having been removed from a live donor and then wrapped up for 20 mins, unraveled and then photographed.

The result is a heavily blood stained piece of cloth, add to that a kidney probably even more bloodstained. The GS piece did not fit that description

Another rush to judgement Trevor?
Incidently, a kidney does not ooze blood when removed.

I seem to recall the apron piece was 'wet with blood', your comment only increases the possibility of it being used to wrap the organs.

[El White Chap]

I tend to envisage this killer needing to wipe himself clean within the first few yards, certainly by the time he crossed St. James Place. A large white rag (estimated to be half the apron), is quite a huge cloth to be seen waving around at night.
If it was only taken to clean himself up I am thinking he needs to distance himself from this rag at the earliest opportunity, preferably the nearer the crime scene the better so as not to leave an indication which way he escaped.

I tend to imagine other possibilities too, a strong one for me is that he was making pretty quick movements early on away from Mitre Square and didn't have the large amount of time necessary for cleaning himself in one sitting. He potentially needed longer to do a thorough job of cleaning himself, would have to break it up with getting away in unison. He'd spent a fare bit of time on Kate in that darkness with all the attention over the other side Whitechapel on Berner Street but knew an officers beat was due any moment.

I imagine him as a distinct possibly leaving before he wanted to due to hearing something/being paranoid someone was approaching. The ripper had already done a 'decent enough number' on Kate to be satisfied, didn't want to risk being in the square any longer. This time was different to that of Chapman's scenario, worser lighting conditions in the small dark square . Making the work time longer and with unexpected eventualities of getting 'covered in his own work'. He didn't foresee being splattered at various points of Kate's mutilations. The liquids were stained thick in places on him, possibly in many different areas on his body/clothes and difficult to wipe off too, which meant he couldn't clean up all at once AND get away from the crime scene. He had to balance out the two, making a duel process of cleaning himself and escaping at the same time, in intervals. Short bursts of each. Had to play the long game with the escape and do so with the use of her clothing, easily folded for ease of carry underneath his overgarment. It is my real conviction that her apron was used just as a towel would be during these escape/clean intervals because he didn't bring something of his own.

[lynn cates]

sensible

Hello EWC. Thanks.

"I'm a firm believer that Kate's murderer cut the piece from the apron to do exactly that, simply clean themselves of the matter that hit them from both the neck and abdomen. An unplanned method of 'cleaning up' whilst on foot escaping the scene of her gruesome demise."

Seems sensible to me.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

idea

Hello DLSDW. Thanks.

"Yes, the GSG didn't provide much clarity. Then again maybe it does..."

Very well. Expand?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

What Mitre been.

Hello Jon.

"A rather long way to carry it don't you think?
Also, for a man to be seen running through the streets away from a crime scene is one matter, but to be actively wiping his hands & clothes at the same time would project a memorable sight to any casual passer-by.

Being caught carrying a bloodstained rag is an immediate clue to culpability."

Yet another reason to believe that the piece should be near one of the three entrances to Mitre sq.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

exit strategy

Hello EWC.

"I'm also not convinced it was a long way to carry the piece of apron, only 4 blocks/4 parallel streets away from Mitre Square. Considering it would likely have been used only in places on that route that were deemed 'safe', that distance isn't an all together challenging prospect to imagine."

Of course, that would depend, in part, on which exit from Mitre sq he used.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Blenkingsop

Hello Jon. Had the assassin exited that route, he should have run bang into Blenkingsop.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

questions

Hello EWC.

"Chapman was the first of the C5 who had a trophy taken, her uterus."

But how do we know it was taken as a trophy?

"By the time the ripper came for Kate, he'd already had experience of taking a trophy and was well prepared for the instance with 'storage'."

Assuming, of course, they are the same person.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

tyro

Hello EWC.

"He didn't foresee being splattered at various points of Kate's mutilations."

Hmm, sounds like a real tyro. I tend to agree.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Another rush to judgement Trevor?
Incidently, a kidney does not ooze blood when removed.

I seem to recall the apron piece was 'wet with blood', your comment only increases the possibility of it being used to wrap the organs.

That example as I have shown is heavily bloodstained there is no reference to the gs piece bring described in that way

Accept it you and all the others over the years who have subscribed to this theory have now been proved wrong

And I will later post a pic of kidney after removal to prove you wrong yet again

[El White Chap]

Hello EWC.

"Chapman was the first of the C5 who had a trophy taken, her uterus."

But how do we know it was taken as a trophy?

What else could it be? It's been taken from the victim, not left at the scene of the crime, missing, vanished.

Assuming, of course, they are the same person.

They were/are widely considered to be work of the same hand, no?

[El White Chap]

Hello EWC.

Of course, that would depend, in part, on which exit from Mitre sq he used.

Cheers.
LC

When concealed, it's not in sight. Regardless of whichever route to Goulston.