GSG j or d

[RivkahChaya]

Given that we don't have a photo, we have it only on faith that the other words were spelled correctly. I've seen comments regarding the supposed ability of the graffito writer to spell "nothing" correctly, but we don't actually know that. We have only the second-hand reports, that seem to be done mostly from memory-- I'm not sure anyone wrote anything down on the spot. But even if someone did, the human brain fills in blanks, so there may have been other errors, or smudged letters, but only one word made sense, so people looking at the graffito at the time saw that word. The word "Juwes" (or whatever) is contentious because we can stick any numbed of nouns or proper names in there, and have the sentence still make sense. Not perfect sense, but you could diagram it.

[moonbegger]

Hello Riv ,

We have only the second-hand reports, that seem to be done mostly from memory-- I'm not sure anyone wrote anything down on the spot.

I think both Long & Halse copied it directly from the wall .. ( Daily News 12th Oct )

( PC Long )

You did not copy from the wall? - Yes, I copied from the wall into my pocket book.

(Halse)

Before it was taken out you had taken note of it? - As plain as I could see it in the dark - for I had no light - I wrote down "The Juwees are not the men that will be blamed for nothing."

The more we see , the less we know

But I think one thing is for certain , it was fairly dark , and mistakes were made ..

moonbegger

[Abby Normal]

I am surprised that the folks who believe the ripper was a "press invention" haven't chimed in expressing their view that it was really an "n" .


Personally, I think it was a "m". I think he had a thing against cows.

[RivkahChaya]

There you go. Jack the Ripper was one of those "mad cows" you've had such a problem with over in the UK.

[Bridewell]

"The Jewries" remains an intriguing outside bet IMHO, especially if written in the proverbial good schoolboy hand. It might also explain a desire by Warren not to have the GSG photographed - and the GSG's own reference only to "the men" as opposed to "the ones".

[moonbegger]

"The Jewries" remains an intriguing outside bet IMHO, especially if written in the proverbial good schoolboy hand. It might also explain a desire by Warren not to have the GSG photographed - and the GSG's own reference only to "the men" as opposed to "the ones".

Yes, I also think this is very much a front runner .. Especially when we take into account Eddows "Nothing" comment earlier that evening .. Was the City Police telling the Met , " Don't blame us for Eddows ( Nothing ) Just because she was murdered on our ground , when up until an hour ago , you had her in your cell's , then you released her into the hands of her Killer at the very time he would be out hunting " .

This for me , puts all the questionable and unanswerable facts about the GSG to bed .. in particular , why Arnold first suggested its removal to Warren , and the whole " where's Waldo" malarkey regarding the Apron .

Moonbegger

[moonbegger]

Hello CF ,

I believe that the confusion about the spelling actually clears up one point- the writing was in script, rather than block letters, and it was written sloppily. Write all the variant spellings in script and see how similar they appear. It also opens up other possibilities- such as 'James'

Good call , And this line of thinking also opens the door up for "The Jane's"
The Jane's are truly the folk that will not be blamed for anything

Jainism, traditionally known as Jaina dharma, is an Indian religion that prescribes a path of non-violence towards all living beings and emphasises spiritual independence and equality between all forms of life. Practitioners believe that non-violence and self-control are the means by which they can obtain liberation from the cycle of reincarnations.

Still confused

moonbegger .

[Bridewell]

Yes, I also think this is very much a front runner .. Especially when we take into account Eddows "Nothing" comment earlier that evening .. Was the City Police telling the Met , " Don't blame us for Eddows ( Nothing ) Just because she was murdered on our ground , when up until an hour ago , you had her in your cell's , then you released her into the hands of her Killer at the very time he would be out hunting " .

Moonbegger

Hi MB,

It was the City Police themselves who had had Eddowes in custody earlier in the evening. I think the theory, as originally advanced, was that the 'Met' were having a go at the City Police, rather than the other way round.

[moonbegger]

Ahh , so it was .. but it all fits together so much better the other way round !

cheers ,

moonbegger

[moonbegger]

And why was it that Det Halse was on Met ground in the first place ? Goulston street was being adequately covered by Long , Halse managed to be on same street at the same time as long , but remain unseen !!!

moonbegger .

[Bridewell]

And why was it that Det Halse was on Met ground in the first place ?
moonbegger .

Halse went onto Met ground because a murder had taken place on Mitre Square which was close to the City boundary.

Goulston street was being adequately covered by Long ,

Halse would have had no prior knowledge of the disposition of Metropolitan Police officers.

Halse managed to be on same street at the same time as long , but remain unseen !!!

I'm more concerned with the reason why Halse didn't see Long who was, after all, in uniform and so should have been easily recognised.

[Wickerman]

Both Halse and Long say "about 20 past two". Not "exactly", just "about".

Unless they both wore a watch, how would they know? The clock, if there was one in hearing distance, would chime at 2:15.
And why would they look at their watch on walking the street anyway, they wouldn't have any reason to.
So isn't it reasonable to assume they were both estimating the time, and they could easily have missed each other by five minutes.

[The Good Michael]

I want to make a point about times. In all the statements, everyone rounds off times to the nearest 5 minute point. That means they didn't know the exact time ever. Serious leeway must be given for the various time estimations. This of course makes many more variations possible for all the circumstances of every murder.

Mike

[moonbegger]

Regarding the possible five minute time confusion , do we know the route of Longs beat , and the path that Halse took before he arrived at the GSG site at 2.20am ?

I have always assumed Long was heading south when he discovered the apron , which would have him heading north on his first passing .. Is that correct ? or did he simply walk the same direction twice in a loop ?

The reason I ask is , If Halse was heading north , and Long was southbound on Goulston street at 2.20am .. Then the few min confusion would still not account for them being , at the very least aware of each other, especially when we take into account that ..

everyone knew the heavy military tread of the policeman could be heard at night time a quarter of a mile at least. He dared say that military tread was very dear to the military ear of the Chief Commissioner, but it certainly gave timely warning to evildoers.

But if Long was Northbound on his first round , then a few min's confusion may well be the answer .

cheers

moonbegger

[moonbegger]

I just came across this Dissertation by Howard Brown , which I believe adds a little bit of weight to my J or d theory ..

At the Wentworth Building, the Ripper’s neatly constructed message took 30 to 45 seconds to put together. An old article in Ripperologist that I put together discusses the mechanics of writing three or four different messages. The longest to perform, a legible and easily understood message, took 30-45 seconds on several attempts on my part. The second word, a persistent point of confusion in the graffiti, could still be misunderstood even after I had told people what I had just written. I feel strongly that the subsequent differences of opinion by the police in their transcription occurred precisely because it was the easiest word to misread. The police on the spot were as prone to making mistakes as anyone else and when faced with the task of transcription, simply made a mistake that people in the 21st Century still do.

cheers

moonbegger