New twist on old message

[Wickerman]

Theres about a liter of blood in the average kidney. So thats rather a lot for a solid organ. I'm not sure the entire apron would prevent dripping.

Hi Errata.
I'm sure you are aware the physical volume of a liter is greater than the physical size of a kidney.
In fact I had understood it was the uterus which would be oozing blood, the kidney would bleed very little.

Regards, Jon S.
(Psst....I was only joking about the leather bag)

[Errata]

Hi Errata,

I confess to not knowing there was that quantity involved. That seemed a lot, so I did a quick Google search (for which I apologise profusely if you're medically qualified yourself):

According to a Margaret A Hawley MD (presumably a Doctor of Medicine):

"The average weight of an adult human kidney is approximately one-quarter pound. Each kidney is approximately 4 inches long, 2.5 inches wide, and 1.5 inches thick.

The kidney receives about 20 percent of the blood coming from the heart each time it beats. The rate of blood flow through both kidneys is approximately 1.2 liters per minute"

If she's right I can't see how a litre would be possible, as the volume of the kidney itself would be insufficient surely?

As for the nearby graffito, the only thing I'm sure about is that it shouldn't have been erased; not because it was definitely connected to the Eddowes murder, but because it could have been, and because the City Police, whose murder exhibit it might be, wished to photograph it.

I was going to ask why JtR took a cloth from Eddowes, but not from Chapman, but then realised that he may have done: perhaps he didn't just cut the bottom edge of her pocket, but took the bottom half of it to hold her abstracted uterus. Maybe...perhaps.

Regards, Bridewell.

Yeah, I'm not qualified in the slightest. I just looked it up, and forgot to divide by two. Half a liter. 17 ounces. I mean, the whole thing is a blood filter was the point, and not either an empty sac or a muscle. Sacs like a uterus or a stomach aren't that blood ridden, and muscles like the heart or intestines tend to hold on to blood. Kidneys and livers entire weight is blood. Major arteries and veins go in and out like the heart, so there is a lot of blood just from excising those organs, but then the organ itself starts to let of of it's contents, and that's just a mess. Though I confess, I have no idea what happens if you try to wring out a kidney.

[Robert]

In the case of Eddowes, there was the rather nasty problem of the faecal matter. This might be why he took the piece of apron. Mind you, I suppose he could have got faecal matter on his hands with Chapman too.

[Bridewell]

That Much?

Theres about a liter of blood in the average kidney. So thats rather a lot for a solid organ. I'm not sure the entire apron would prevent dripping.

Hi Errata,

I confess to not knowing there was that quantity involved. That seemed a lot, so I did a quick Google search (for which I apologise profusely if you're medically qualified yourself):

According to a Margaret A Hawley MD (presumably a Doctor of Medicine):

"The average weight of an adult human kidney is approximately one-quarter pound. Each kidney is approximately 4 inches long, 2.5 inches wide, and 1.5 inches thick.

The kidney receives about 20 percent of the blood coming from the heart each time it beats. The rate of blood flow through both kidneys is approximately 1.2 liters per minute"

If she's right I can't see how a litre would be possible, as the volume of the kidney itself would be insufficient surely?

As for the nearby graffito, the only thing I'm sure about is that it shouldn't have been erased; not because it was definitely connected to the Eddowes murder, but because it could have been, and because the City Police, whose murder exhibit it might be, wished to photograph it.

I was going to ask why JtR took a cloth from Eddowes, but not from Chapman, but then realised that he may have done: perhaps he didn't just cut the bottom edge of her pocket, but took the bottom half of it to hold her abstracted uterus. Maybe...perhaps.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Errata]

Theres about a liter of blood in the average kidney. So thats rather a lot for a solid organ. I'm not sure the entire apron would prevent dripping.

[moonbegger]

[QUOTE=Wickerman;212794]Why soil a perfectly well made, expensive, and otherwise useful leather bag with an organ oozing blood?
Surely, that is why he took such a large piece of apron in the first place?

That is my point ?

[Wickerman]

[ why throw down the apron for no reason, he had her insides in his bag , no reason whatsoever to throw it down when it would have been a lot easier to stick it back in his bag with the rest of her ; / ] and no trace of him left behind ?
moonbegger

Why soil a perfectly well made, expensive, and otherwise useful leather bag with an organ oozing blood?
Surely, that is why he took such a large piece of apron in the first place?

Regards, Jon S.

[moonbegger]

Hi Bridewell , thanks for your input ,Here is the thing , i find myself in the glorious position of not really having a main suspect , and only half a theory although i really do believe we have all the pieces to the Ripper jigsaw puzzle laid out in front of us , they just need to be taken out of the ill fitting puzzles the are currently assembled within and pieced together correctly in the one true assembly ! only then will we be half way to finding out the whole truth these anagrams are just a bit of fun but i do think they are worth sharing , maybe even lend a bit of weight to someone else's theory .. who knows ? i do have an even stranger anagram including two main suspects names and their method of killing ... conjecture aside i do believe the goulston street message is connected to the killer because
[ why throw down the apron for no reason, he had her insides in his bag , no reason whatsoever to throw it down when it would have been a lot easier to stick it back in his bag with the rest of her ; / ] and no trace of him left behind ?
moonbegger

[Bridewell]

I Think Not

Here is another less cryptic but just as potent re arrangement .. by switching the first two words for the last word of the message we get
[ Nothing are the men , that will not be blamed for the juwes ] and it becomes a very specific attack on certain people that are becoming less supportive of the whole situation ( When exactly did Charles Warren resign ?

Hi Moonbegger,

I think, if you're going to go down the hidden message route, you have to decide what the message was and why, then stick to it, rather than come up with a number of alternatives. I know it's fashionable to suggest that the police weren't up to the job, but if JtR had been camped out on Goulston Street for a week with his copy of "Puzzle Monthly" he would have been noticed at some point.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Robert]

"Are you nuts?"

That's not nice!

[Abby Normal]

Here is a new twist on the Ghoulston street graffiti , i use the word ( new ) very loosely .. its actually a very old piece of evidence .. that police and historian's alike have overlooked , or mistakenly taken it for the ( red herring ) for which it was intended all them years ago . it could mean nothing or it could mean everything ..

firstly: Bearing in mind the cunning and the precise manner of the whitechapel murderer , its unthinkable he would allow himself stop off in ghoulston street ( in a blind doorway unable to know or see if someone was approaching from either end of the street ) and take the time to write a chalk message on the inside wall , whilst having in his possession the very evidence that would hang him ( Catherine Eddows blood soaked apron ) especially after murdering two woman in the close proximity and the streets being full of people hunting him down .. even with an accomplice keeping watch its still a whole load of unneeded risk ... however !

However !! what if the message was written before the double event even happened , maybe on the way to finding Liz Stride ! How much pressure would be on the shoulders of the murderer or even an accomplice to scrawl down what would appear to be an anti semitic message on the walls of a mainly jewish tenement building .. not a hanging offence that's for sure . And once the murder's had been taken care of , simply by placing or even throwing the piece of Catherine Eddows bloody apron beneath the chalk writing ( that had been scrawled a few hours before ) would take no time at all , my guess is you wouldn't even have the break pace at all ( that's if he was walking ) . And so there you have it , the infamous Juwes message , validated by Eddows apron beneath it, for all the world to ponder over ... well i guess that was the plan until a certain Mr Warren surprisingly chose to take a more hands on approach.

Before the infamous message .. there are a few words that i would like to draw your attention to ( 1 ) Mettle { courage , spirit } (2) Bled { draw blood / obtain money by extortion . (3) Jah-Bul-On { Freemason god of the highest degree } .

The message scrawled on the wall above Catherine Eddows blood soaked apron read ..

[ The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing ]

( the movable [ Not ] makes no difference )

For over a hundred years people have read it and taken it for exacty what it is and how it was written , at face value , and not once questioning the sly and cunning mind that may have put it there . the mind of a cunning trickster , playing ( catch me when you can ) with two london police forces and forcing an autum of terror upon the entire population of London .. Using the same 46 letters , just re-aranging them , this interesting anagram rears it's head ....

[ Jah Bu Lon , mettle within Freemason gent , that bled Whore ]

Here's an anagram for you:

Any route Su?

[Robert]

Hi Moonbegger

But he would be taking a gamble that his identifier would be noticed. I suppose it was a reasonable bet that it would - a bloody piece of apron would I suppose attract attention, especially after daybreak. He'd also be gambling that the apron didn't get moved, e.g. carried off by a dog. Wouldn't it have been simpler, though, if he wanted to leave a message, if he'd written it on a piece of paper and pinned it to his victim?

[moonbegger]

relative anagram

As i described in my ( mainly unread post ; ) maybe the graffiti was put there a few hours before the double event by either the killer or an accomplice
maybe even on the way to finding Liz Stride ( no pressure or risk in that at all ) and then on the way back from Catherine Eddows murder simply tossing her bloody apron beneath the graffiti to authenticate it . this was my main point before it got lost in the anagram malarkey ; ) and also the warped mind of a twisted assassin may be a bit different to that of serial killer . Maybe the days leading up to the double event the killer devised a cryptic anagram to poke a preverbal stick at those in charge . but i do get the point you all make about "why bother" being so cryptic .. and i confess , i don't know either but here is another less cryptic but just as potent re arrangement .. by switching the first two words for the last word of the message we get
[ Nothing are the men , that will not be blamed for the juwes ] and it becomes a very specific attack on certain people that are becoming less supportive of the whole situation ( When exactly did Charles Warren resign ?

[greeneyes]

OP. I rather liked your anagram. But my question would be why bother? What would the murderer have to gain by making the message as cryptic as that? Surely it would be a case of wanting to leave a message and writing it in plain English on the wall or not wanting to leave a message and not doing so?

I would also question the anagram from the perspective of time pressure. People have doubted the message was the work of JTR simply due to the fact that he would be unlikely to hang around at the scene of the crime daubing his thoughts on the wall. It stands to reason it would taken even longer to create an anagram of this complexity and paint that on the wall. I suppose he could have worked it all out at home in advance. But again, I can't work out why he would go to all that trouble?

[Errata]

I think the general problem with anagram theories is that serial killers are somewhat known for having no respect whatsoever for the intelligence of the police. So why scribble a tiny anagram on a somewhat out of the way wall for the police when you think they are idiots? It's why Zodiac sent his codes to the papers.