Chalk users

[curious]

and I wish we all knew if that residue was on top of that piece of apron!

But since PC Long grabbed it up and ran with it, no one will ever know.

[Beowulf]

To be honest MB, its location would have sheltered it from rain.

However, it had stopped raining by the time the writing was alledged to have been written.

If it was that fresh, residue would have been noted.

Monty

and I wish we all knew if that residue was on top of that piece of apron!

[robhouse]

Here is another photo that seems to show chalk writing on the wall at left. I can't read it. There also may be some chalk writing on the shutter at right.

Not sure where exactly this is, but I have the photo labelled as "Bethnal Green." I am sure I downloaded this from the East End Photos thread.

Rob H

[Bridewell]

I wonder why the writer chose "Call 5 o'clock", rather than "Call 5am" or "Call 5pm", which would have been shorter and less ambiguous. Presumably the intended recipient knew whether a.m. or p.m. was meant.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Archaic]

The photograph showing the tailor's shop that you say was at that address next to the White Hart pub on Greenfield Street presents an interesting example of chalk messages evidently being left on a regular basis on the closed shutters of the shop.

"19th Century text messaging."

Cheers,
Archaic

[moonbegger]

To be honest MB, its location would have sheltered it from rain.

However, it had stopped raining by the time the writing was alledged to have been written.

If it was that fresh, residue would have been noted.

Monty

Hi Monty ,

As a youngster , i had a friend who lived in a tenement block very similar to that of Wentworth Dwellings . I mention this because i remember as children , we would play in the entrance area, and when it rained , sometimes the rain would come right into the entrance of the building , forcing us back to the stair well ( to smoke our crack pipe ) but i distinctly remember the door jam brickwork also getting wet on occasions.

So I'm guessing that i must have the GSG word placement wrong , if your suggestion is correct and the brickwork was totally sheltered ..

I would love to see either a photoshopped picture of the most probable placement of the message , or even a drawing . Reading through this thread there seems to be a bit of confusion of the actual chalk message placement on the wall . Just a thought .

I should also add , that i am still not convinced that the message was not written before the murder(s) Hense the slight blurring of the writing ,wet rain then dry ?

Moonbegger .

[ChrisGeorge]

Here is a photo showing some chalk writing on the shutter of what I am guessing is some sort of shop, perhaps a tailor shop. This is a photo of the White Hart pub on Greenfield St (just a few houses north of Kozminski's brother's and sister's houses.) The photo is circa 1880s I believe.

It seems that the chalk writing says "Call at 5 oclock." So I am guessing that shop owners may have written messages like this on their shutters to indicate when they would be open, or other similar messages.

Rob H

According to the 1888 Booth survey of tailors, this building (#11 Greenfield St) was the shop of a tailor named Miller who made coats. So there is evidence of tailors using chalk.

Would that handwriting be called a "schoolboy hand"?

Hello Rob

A most interesting period photograph posted by you in post no. 67. Many thanks, Rob.

The photograph showing the tailor's shop that you say was at that address next to the White Hart pub on Greenfield Street presents an interesting example of chalk messages evidently being left on a regular basis on the closed shutters of the shop.

As you theorise, the wording "Call at 5 oclock" (or similar) might have been left by the owners of the shop, although it does occur to me that it might have been a message left by a customer or the rent man or a bill collector, conceivably -- someone who called by on a regular basis, and would leave messages by this means, thus explaining the evidently erased other messages. Remember that we are talking of a time when most people did not have telephones so had to find some other means to transmit a message.

And as to your question whether the observed legible chalk writing represents the round schoolboy hand as the graffito has been characterized, most definitely because that description basically describes the cursive script of the day that a schoolboy would have learned in school.

All the best

Chris

[Fisherman]

I know. I guess.

Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

Mike:

" So... is "fresh" conjecture based upon the writing's state of being not smeared, or is there something more?"

Maybe. (couldnīt resist, Mike ...)

But that is absolutely correct. We can know almost nothing.

Mike

[Fisherman]

Mike:

" So... is "fresh" conjecture based upon the writing's state of being not smeared, or is there something more?"

Maybe. (couldnīt resist, Mike ...)

Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

Playing devil's advocate, if Halse said the graffiti looked fresh, some sort of residue, a bit of dust on the dado or on the ground may have been implied by the statement. He wasn't recorded to have been asked why it looked fresh, or what the term "fresh" meant to him. He did give details about capital letters and size of script and that is was three lines, but no details as to the freshness save that if it had been much older he thought it would have been rubbed away. So... is "fresh" conjecture based upon the writing's state of being not smeared, or is there something more?

Mike

[bolo]

Hi Monty, all,

Indeed, Victorian chalk compound meant it was far 'crumblier' than today.

Which begs the question, where was the residue?

it may have been gone already when the police discovered the graffito. Calcium carbonate, especially when more or less finely powered, is very hygroscopic. On a wet night, most of the residue would have blended into the background or "dissolved" by the humidity of the air after less than half an hour, thus making it difficult to tell wether the writing was old or new.

Wasn't there someone who made a series of practical experiments with chalking the graffito on a wall? If I recall correctly, here was something in it about the residue as well.

Regards,

Boris

[Fisherman]

Mike:

"Maybe."

Ripperology in a nutshell!

The best,
Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

If it was that fresh, residue would have been noted.

Maybe.

Mike

[Monty]

To be honest MB, its location would have sheltered it from rain.

However, it had stopped raining by the time the writing was alledged to have been written.

If it was that fresh, residue would have been noted.

Monty