The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Abby Normal]

Plus, the moon was "behind" Wentworth Modern Dwellings, and rather low in the eastern sky... to say nothing of its not being even half full, and given the cloud cover. Little light out front, little light out back; the doorway was dark, all right.

Hi Sam
I'm wondering if it was too dark to see or write, then why didn't any of the police mention this and or think the killer wrote it? Theyre on the scene, theyre actually the ones present in 1888 and surely would know more about the actual lighting conditions at the time no?

[John G]

Hi Sam
I'm wondering if it was too dark to see or write, then why didn't any of the police mention this and or think the killer wrote it? Theyre on the scene, theyre actually the ones present in 1888 and surely would know more about the actual lighting conditions at the time no?

Hi Abby,

That's a very fair point. However, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it McNaughton who argued that it was written by the killer? If so, he didn't arrive on the scene until 5:00 am, by which point, of course, it would have been much lighter.

[Sam Flynn]

I'm wondering if it was too dark to see or write, then why didn't any of the police mention this and or think the killer wrote it? Theyre on the scene, theyre actually the ones present in 1888 and surely would know more about the actual lighting conditions at the time no?

The lighting conditions would have been extremely poor, Abby, of that there's no doubt. As to whether the police would have deemed it too dark to write, perhaps it simply never occurred to them.

[Sam Flynn]

However, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it McNaughton who argued that it was written by the killer? If so, he didn't arrive on the scene until 5:00 am, by which point, of course, it would have been much lighter.

It was Sir Charles Warren, but your point is valid nonetheless.

[John G]

It was Sir Charles Warren, but your point is valid nonetheless.

Thanks Sam. I had a funny feeling I was getting mixed up!

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks Sam. I had a funny feeling I was getting mixed up!

One moustachioed, middle-class Victorian is pretty much indistinguishable from another

[Michael W Richards]

Perhaps an instance of "rectum protectum" on his part, to use the technical term? Besides, he may genuinely not have noticed it the first time round; not everything that lands on the eye registers in the brain.

With all due respect Sam, the transcripts say he said "it was not there", not I didn't see it, I didn't notice, I may have missed it, I don't think it was there....he was clear.

Whether you or others choose to take him at his word isn't really the point, the point is that he was sure based upon his empirical comment. I would suggest that it be accepted unless some proof he cant be trusted comes forward.

[Sam Flynn]

With all due respect Sam, the transcripts say he said "it was not there", not I didn't see it, I didn't notice, I may have missed it, I don't think it was there....he was clear.

Indeed so, Mike, but if you don't perceive something, it may was well not exist. In other words, he may have missed it, and still genuinely believed that "it was not there".

[Abby Normal]

The lighting conditions would have been extremely poor, Abby, of that there's no doubt. As to whether the police would have deemed it too dark to write, perhaps it simply never occurred to them.

Never occurred to them? Now that I find hard to believe. You had PCs who saw it at night, and a whole host of police, including higher ups who were there at the time. It was discovered in the middle of the night after the eddowes murder and yet many police, including senior members thought it was written by the killer and none of them thought it was too dark to bee seen. If it was such an impossibility surely that would have come up. I mean they are saying they think the killer wrote it!?!

Also, Long saw the apron first-from a distance? in the pitch black?

[Sam Flynn]

Never occurred to them? Now that I find hard to believe.

I don't, Abby. None of them were cognitive psychologists, most of them had lamps, and some of the key officers arrived after 5AM, as John G has already pointed out.

[Sam Flynn]

Also, Long saw the apron first-from a distance? in the pitch black?

The issue isn't one of being able to see something comparatively large and white under poor lighting conditions, but whether it was too dark to write rather a wordy message on a narrow, vertical surface, and to do so in small, neat letters.

[Abby Normal]

I don't, Abby. None of them were cognitive psychologists, most of them had lamps, and some of the key officers arrived after 5AM, as John G has already pointed out.

I think the police were smarter than that

[Abby Normal]

The issue isn't one of being able to see something comparatively large and white under poor lighting conditions, but whether it was too dark to write rather a wordy message on a narrow, vertical surface, and to do so in small, neat letters.

I thought the issue was it was pitch black, so you couldn't see, so the GSG couldn't have been written at night.

[Sam Flynn]

I think the police were smarter than that

I see no reason to believe that such things would automatically occur to 19th century people, at a time when "forensic thinking" (if I can call it that) was some distance in the future. We only have to look at some of the twaddle believed, or the dodgy theories proposed, by some of the senior police officers, coroners and doctors to see that even the most highly educated weren't blessed with the most logical or rational of minds.

PS: The police aren't necessarily smarter (or otherwise) than anyone else.

[Sam Flynn]

I thought the issue was it was pitch black, so you couldn't see, so the GSG couldn't have been written at night.

If you go back through my posts, Abby, you'll note that I've pointed out the issue of the neat, round letters a few times. Writing on a vertical surface in near-darkness would be impressive enough, but writing a rather long message tidily in small letters would be more impressive still. Plus if, as Warren tells us, the writing was on the door jamb, then it's not just a verical surface, but a narrow, restricted vertical surface, which would constrain the writer still further, and make writing neatly even more difficult.