The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Joshua Rogan]

Didn't Halse say he copied the writing into his notebook without the aid of a lamp? Of course, it may well have been a bit lighter by that time.

[Elamarna]

Didn't Halse say he copied the writing into his notebook without the aid of a lamp? Of course, it may well have been a bit lighter by that time.

Hi Joshua,
Do you not think he may mean without use of his police lamp, rather than a street lamp. If memory serves me there was one however it was not that close.
Also there is maybe a difference between writing onto the assumed whitish pages of his not book at normal hight; rather than squatting to write the GSG has it's author surely would need to do.


Steve

[Sam Flynn]

Time for a summary

And a brilliant one, too. Great post, John.

[John G]

And a brilliant one, too. Great post, John.

Thanks Gareth, much appreciated.

[John G]

Hi Joshua,
Do you not think he may mean without use of his police lamp, rather than a street lamp. If memory serves me there was one however it was not that close.
Also there is maybe a difference between writing onto the assumed whitish pages of his not book at normal hight; rather than squatting to write the GSG has it's author surely would need to do.


Steve

Hi Steve,

He doesn't actually say whether he used a lamp or not, nor what time he reached Goulston Street. However, he was present when Warren ordered the graffiti to be removed-this was done at about 5:30am according to PC Long.

No street lamp was close enough to throw any light on the passage.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua,
Do you not think he may mean without use of his police lamp, rather than a street lamp. If memory serves me there was one however it was not that close.
Also there is maybe a difference between writing onto the assumed whitish pages of his not book at normal hight; rather than squatting to write the GSG has it's author surely would need to do.

Hi Steve. You're right, I wasn't too clear, and meant he didn't have a police lantern to see with.But I'd say that if there was enough light to read and copy the graffito, there was enough to write it too, wherever that light came from.

[John G]

Hi Steve. You're right, I wasn't too clear, and meant he didn't have a police lantern to see with.But I'd say that if there was enough light to read and copy the graffito, there was enough to write it too, wherever that light came from.

But who knows how many bullseye lamps were lined up before the graffiti was copied. And Warren probably saw the graffiti in the early hours of the morning, considering it wasn't erased at 5:30am. And frankly, I think JtR would have looked a bit conspicuous walking around Whitechapel with about 10 bullseye lamps strapped to his back!

[Sam Flynn]

But who knows how many bullseye lamps were lined up before the graffiti was copied.

Exactly what I was thinking. It's a safe bet that it wasn't copied straight away; indeed, it's quite possible that the graffiti wasn't copied until it was known that the order had been given to erase it.

[John G]

Exactly what I was thinking. It's a safe bet that it wasn't copied straight away; indeed, it's quite possible that the graffiti wasn't copied until it was known that the order had been given to erase it.

I think your probably right, otherwise why bother to copy it at all. And Charles Warren must have arrived after 5:00am because he didn't arrive at Leman Street, where he ascertained the facts of the double event, until just before 5:00am-he then made his way to Goulston Street, whereupon he decided to have it removed after taking a copy: https://www.casebook.org/official_do...l?printer=true

[John G]

I've just read PC Long's evidence again and he stated that he copied the graffiti before heading to Commercial Street to give his report to the inspector. However, we know that he utilized his bullseye lamp, and he may have also had the benefit of a second lamp-that of PC190H who he had called over.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Time for a summary. Firstly, apart from moonlight, is there any light that could have shone onto the narrow passageway entrance of Wentworth Dwellings where the graffiti was found? I think the answer has to be no. Thus, there was a street lamp that could theoretically have shone onto the passage, but this was 20 feet away. However, an expert consulted by Neil Bell stated that the maximum range of a good quality lamp of the period, which would have thrown out the equivalent amount of light as a refrigerator lightbulb, would be just 14 feet (and the street lighting in Whitechapel wasn't of the best quality because it was a very poor district.)

Secondly, how dark would it be at the time the graffiti was discovered? Well, there is a photograph, taken in daylight, of the entrance to Wentworth Dwellings taken in the 1970s (it had hardly changed since 1888), which can be found in CSI Whitechapel (2012) and Scotland Yard Investigates, Evans and Rumbelow, (2006). However, despite being daylight, you can't actually see into the passage as it's cloaked in darkness: might this explain why the graffiti wasn't removed-because it wasn't noticed- if it was written, say, a few days earlier, possibly in daylight hours? Consideration also needs to be given to the fact that 1888 was decades before the era of light pollution: there were no car headlights, modern street lights, and neon signs in those days. Even the pubs, that may have provided some additional lighting, closed at midnight!

And, as I've noted before, Dutfield's Yard is a good comparator. In this location, it was so dark that, at about 12:40am, Joseph Lave couldn't even find the door to get back into the club. And, at 1:00am, Louis D looked down on Stride's body-at the lighter front end of the Yard- thinking it was a bundle of rags.

However, I think the Wentworth Dwellings entrance must have been even darker, as it was narrower than Dutfield's Yard, and was enclosed by a roof-unlike the Stride murder location, of course.

In this regard, PC Long's testimony is also helpful: "He [PC Long] had not noticed the wall before. He noticed the piece of apron first, and then the words on the wall...his light was on at the time."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/times/18881012.html

It therefore appears that, without the aid of his lamp, the officer couldn't even see the wall, let alone the writing.

Thirdly, could the author have used a match? As I've previously noted, matches of the period would have been ignited by white phosphorus, which is highly volatile, and chemically similar to napalm-in fact, it's so unstable it can actually self-ignite; here's some videos to illustrate the point: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UnuW-KpQwY8; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xja3nzx7O78; https://sites.google.com/site/chemla...ite-phosphorus

Two issues therefore arise. If he'd struck a number of these matches he would have lit up the area like a Christmas tree, thus drawing attention to himself, and why would JtR be crazy enough to do that? And if he put the burnt out matches in his pocket-and if he didn't, where were they?-I think he might very well have set himself on fire! I mean, even a modern red phosphorus match still smoulders at the tip after it's burnt out, so would you put a match, that's just been ignited by a napalm like substance, in your pocket?

And why would he bother anyway? Unless, perhaps, he was constructing a replica model of the murder sites out of matchsticks!

It would also be hopelessly impractical. Harold Brown conducted an experiment and it took him 45 seconds to write out the graffito in a legible hand: https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...l?printer=true In that period the author may have had to light, say, ten matches, all the while attracting attention to what he was doing. Quite frankly, it would have been a completely insane idea.

Conclusion: It is very unlikely that the graffiti was written by JtR because it would have been far too dark for him to have written it in "good schoolboy hand."

I agree with Sam, an excellent post John......but.

I still don't feel that it was impossible that it could have been written that night. Firstly we simply can't know for sure just how dark it was. Gaps in the cloud could have provided some moonlight. Couldn't some light have come from the buildings opposite? Yes phosphorous was volatile but people did use matches. Are there any examples of 'match related' injuries? If the writer used matches then flung them into the road would the police really have felt that they were significant even if they had noticed them?
I've tried writing in the pitch dark. Sometimes some of the words overlapped. Sometimes they went at an angle. But my handwriting never became untidy (I have pretty neat handwriting by the way.) With minimal light I'm confident that I could write the message pretty neatly.
If, as some suggest, that this message could have been the spark that started the fire, why hadn't it already? Why had no 'offended' Jew erased it already? The police obviously felt that it was newly/recently written.
I just don't think that we can use the conditions to eliminate the possibility that the message was written that night. Of course that still doesn't mean that it was definately written by the Ripper.

[Abby Normal]

Folks
Are we really trying to argue it was absolutely pitch black in goulston street so the graffiti couldn't have been written at night? Really!?!

if it was pitch black there it must be pitch black in so many other places in London at night you would wonder how anybody could get around. Cmon. There's enough ambient lighting from the other lights and the moon and the overall reflection of lights in the city and reflecting off the clouds that you could see.

Nowhere would it be pitch black except in rooms with doors closed and curtains drawn.

And besides, he could have struck a match. And even if it was pitch black it's still possible to write even if you can't see. Especially if it was cursive or semi cursive.

One of the weakest arguments I've seen on here in a while.

[The Good Michael]

Fine. Why write it at night when it was dark? Why not write it in the late afternoon, or in the morning? Presumably, graffiti abounded in the area, so why not just write it quickly, if you have an urgent message to give, in a round schoolboy's hand, when you can completely see what you're doing?

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Abby

There's enough ambient lighting from the other lights and the moon and the overall reflection of lights in the city and reflecting off the clouds that you could see.

There were few street lights in Goulston Street, the moon was low in the sky and in precisely the wrong place to cast any light on (or into) the doorway... besides, there was significant cloud cover, reported to be 100%.

And besides, he could have struck a match.

Quite a juggling-act, I'd have thought - and, for such a (comparatively) lengthy message, he'd have needed more than one. Yet no spent match-sticks appear to have been found at the scene.

And even if it was pitch black it's still possible to write even if you can't see. Especially if it was cursive or semi cursive.

In small, tidy letters? From memory, most of them were three-quarters of an inch high.

To me, the GSG bears all the hallmarks of someone taking their time in reasonable lighting conditions, to write a neat message on a wall.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Fine. Why write it at night when it was dark? Why not write it in the late afternoon, or in the morning? Presumably, graffiti abounded in the area, so why not just write it quickly, if you have an urgent message to give, in a round schoolboy's hand, when you can completely see what you're doing?

Mike

If it was written by the killer then the reason it was written at night was because that's when he was out and about.