The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[John G]

Hi John

Anyone can write short passages in passages in the dark, but it`s worth noting that if the author was the killer, he was comfortable working with low visibility, in fact, that seems to have been his bag.

Hi Jon,

In "good schoolboy hand"? In pitch black darkness? I don't think I would be able to accomplish such a feat although, to be honest, my handwriting isn't great at the best of times!

[Jon Guy]

In "good schoolboy hand"? In pitch black darkness? I don't think I would be able to accomplish such a feat although, to be honest, my handwriting isn't great at the best of times!

Hi John

In those days kids were all taught to write the same at school. There would only be one style of writing for most of them. They were taught to form the letters in the same way, in fact there would be generations of kids who, despite their varying intellectual capacities, would write the same.

But, my point is that the Ripper operated in very lowlight, which is a lot harder than writing a sentence on a wall in darkness.

[John G]

Hi John

In those days kids were all taught to write the same at school. There would only be one style of writing for most of them. They were taught to form the letters in the same way, in fact there would be generations of kids who, despite their varying intellectual capacities, would write the same.

But, my point is that the Ripper operated in very lowlight, which is a lot harder than writing a sentence on a wall in darkness.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the information. However, I would still question how anyone could write anything legible in what may have been total darkness.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the information. However, I would still question how anyone could write anything legible in what may have been total darkness.

I think most people can, John

[John G]

I think most people can, John

I must be the exception then, Jon!

[Jon Guy]

I must be the exception then, Jon!

Yes, at least you`re ruled out as a suspect, John ;-)

[Herlock Sholmes]

Although Sam has shown that the 'sky' conditions weren't great I don't think that we can be certain just how dark it was at street level. Wickerman posted a map here recently and if I recall correctly there was a street lamp not too far from the doorway so there would have been at least 'some' light.

And yes it's perfectly possible that he could have struck a match or three. The police didn't report seeing any used matches but would they have? The writer could have thrown the matches out into the road or even pocketed them. I don't see the light as an issue.

Writing fairly neatly, especially at little more than handwriting size, isn't impossible. I've tried writing in near total darkness a few times. Sometimes it trails off at an angle but not always. Sometimes words overlap but not always. But my handwriting remained pretty good.

I think that the surface he was writing on would have affected his writing more. Perhaps if, in writing the message, he wrote the word 'jewes' (perhaps a less puzzling mis-spelling) over the concrete between the bricks and this rough surface made the word appear as 'juwes?'

So maybe a piece of rough concrete spawned a host of cospiracies!

[Jon Guy]

. I've tried writing in near total darkness a few times. Sometimes it trails off at an angle but not always. Sometimes words overlap but not always. But my handwriting remained pretty good.

Hi Herlock

Yes, it was only a sentence. I`m sure most of us (apart from John G) could shut our eyes and write a sentence or two before it was unreadable.

So maybe a piece of rough concrete spawned a host of cospiracies!

Well, maybe since, but of more relevance is that at the time the police thought it may have started some anti-Semitic trouble, and had no doubt as to what Juwes referred to.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

...... but of more relevance is that at the time the police thought it may have started some anti-Semitic trouble, and had no doubt as to what Juwes referred to.

Hi Jon,

I definately don't go for any Masonic conspiracy theory but I've always felt that erasing the graffito was a mistake. I think that Arnold and Warren just panicked. After all, as Long had taken the cloth away, they could have just left an officer guarding the graffiti until a photographer got there. If anyone asked him why he was there he could have made up an excuse and the public would have had no reason to connect the graffito with the murders. They probably wouldn't have even seen it with a 14 stone copper standing in front of it? If anti-Semitic graffiti was common-place (and had caused no riots so far) then the only reason why Arnold and Warren might have feared a problem was the connection to the murders (via the apron). With the apron gone (thanks to Long) surely the threat of riot disappears with it?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon,

I definately don't go for any Masonic conspiracy theory but I've always felt that erasing the graffito was a mistake. I think that Arnold and Warren just panicked. After all, as Long had taken the cloth away, they could have just left an officer guarding the graffiti until a photographer got there. If anyone asked him why he was there he could have made up an excuse and the public would have had no reason to connect the graffito with the murders. They probably wouldn't have even seen it with a 14 stone copper standing in front of it? If anti-Semitic graffiti was common-place (and had caused no riots so far) then the only reason why Arnold and Warren might have feared a problem was the connection to the murders (via the apron). With the apron gone (thanks to Long) surely the threat of riot disappears with it?

Hi Herlock

I`m with Arnold on this one.
I think he knew that even just a rumour would re-kindle the same problems he faced as on 8th Sept.

Remember, it would have been a Sunday, and everyone would have the day off, getting pissed and having a brawl, and the unlucky Jewish community would be easy targets working at their stalls.

Leaving a copper at the entrance to Wentworth Dwellings may have caused more problems. A mob may think there was something else there that was connected to the murder.

If you put yourself in Warren and Arnold`s shoes, what difference would a photograph make ?
Even if we had a photo of the GSG now, what difference would it make. It might even have been that juwes was written in a way that we could not tell exactly how it was spelt.

I don`t think Arnold could take that chance. Especially as it was a double event this time, and a Sunday.

[Abby Normal]

Although Sam has shown that the 'sky' conditions weren't great I don't think that we can be certain just how dark it was at street level. Wickerman posted a map here recently and if I recall correctly there was a street lamp not too far from the doorway so there would have been at least 'some' light.

And yes it's perfectly possible that he could have struck a match or three. The police didn't report seeing any used matches but would they have? The writer could have thrown the matches out into the road or even pocketed them. I don't see the light as an issue.

Writing fairly neatly, especially at little more than handwriting size, isn't impossible. I've tried writing in near total darkness a few times. Sometimes it trails off at an angle but not always. Sometimes words overlap but not always. But my handwriting remained pretty good.

I think that the surface he was writing on would have affected his writing more. Perhaps if, in writing the message, he wrote the word 'jewes' (perhaps a less puzzling mis-spelling) over the concrete between the bricks and this rough surface made the word appear as 'juwes?'

So maybe a piece of rough concrete spawned a host of cospiracies!

hi HS
the writing never saw the light of day. one of the residents of the predominantly jewish building would have rubbed it out if it had been there any length of time. either on purpose or maybe accidently as the police said.

and more than likely there was enough ambient lighting to write it at night.

no night is so pitch black (in a large city no less) that you cant see at least a bit.

[John G]

Although Sam has shown that the 'sky' conditions weren't great I don't think that we can be certain just how dark it was at street level. Wickerman posted a map here recently and if I recall correctly there was a street lamp not too far from the doorway so there would have been at least 'some' light.

And yes it's perfectly possible that he could have struck a match or three. The police didn't report seeing any used matches but would they have? The writer could have thrown the matches out into the road or even pocketed them. I don't see the light as an issue.

Writing fairly neatly, especially at little more than handwriting size, isn't impossible. I've tried writing in near total darkness a few times. Sometimes it trails off at an angle but not always. Sometimes words overlap but not always. But my handwriting remained pretty good.

I think that the surface he was writing on would have affected his writing more. Perhaps if, in writing the message, he wrote the word 'jewes' (perhaps a less puzzling mis-spelling) over the concrete between the bricks and this rough surface made the word appear as 'juwes?'

So maybe a piece of rough concrete spawned a host of cospiracies!

Hi Herlock,

I doubt there would be any light (there wasn't in Dutfield's Yard earlier as Lave couldn't even see the door to get back into the club; and note also that PC Long could only see the writing when he shone his lamp). If you read Neil's excellent article he points out that there was only one street light that was relevant but that wouldn't have thrown any light into the doorway (Victorian street lamps were very inefficient, only producing as much light as a modern refrigerator bulb.

Lighting matches wouldn't have been remotely practical. A modern red phosphorus match burns for only 6 seconds, but in 1888 they used white phosphorus that was far more volatile (they were banned under the Hague Convention, 1904) . This means that may only have had the opportunity to write, say, a couple of words before having to strike another match.

I seriously doubt he would put dead matches in his pocket. Why would he do that? And I'm pretty certain that it would have been commented on of any matches were found, as that would be important supporting evidence for the graffiti being written at night.

[John G]

Yes, at least you`re ruled out as a suspect, John ;-)

That's a relief Jon! Maybe as an experiment you could try writting out the graffiti, in your best schoolboy hand, of course, with your eyes closed. I would be grateful if you let me know what happens.

[Jon Guy]

That's a relief Jon! Maybe as an experiment you could try writting out the graffiti, in your best schoolboy hand, of course, with your eyes closed. I would be grateful if you let me know what happens.

Will do, John.

But for now, I`m about to type out the rest of this post blindfolded, just to see how it turns oudml;c .dITwhat hsk;vkedopf,.v,.3e 3,ll;l;ow flfl;lcv^&$d cdjkcmc mvm, k cashews ffg #'g;f/cff44f5df2d33DF.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I doubt there would be any light (there wasn't in Dutfield's Yard earlier as Lave couldn't even see the door to get back into the club; and note also that PC Long could only see the writing when he shone his lamp). If you read Neil's excellent article he points out that there was only one street light that was relevant but that wouldn't have thrown any light into the doorway (Victorian street lamps were very inefficient, only producing as much light as a modern refrigerator bulb.

Lighting matches wouldn't have been remotely practical. A modern red phosphorus match burns for only 6 seconds, but in 1888 they used white phosphorus that was far more volatile (they were banned under the Hague Convention, 1904) . This means that may only have had the opportunity to write, say, a couple of words before having to strike another match.

I seriously doubt he would put dead matches in his pocket. Why would he do that? And I'm pretty certain that it would have been commented on of any matches were found, as that would be important supporting evidence for the graffiti being written at night.

Hi John,

If he could remove a kidney in the dark, writing a couple of lines in chalk in the dark shouldn't have been beyond the realms of possibility. I just think that it's not impossible that it wasn't completely pitch black.