The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

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  • etenguy
    Chief Inspector
    • Jul 2017
    • 1565

    #1396
    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    Beat me to it, Sam.

    Also, ironically, some of those killers mentioned may have been influenced by the unsubstantiated belief that JTR communicated with the police/press.
    That's an insightful observation, and may be the case, at least for some.

    Comment

    • Sam Flynn
      Casebook Supporter
      • Feb 2008
      • 13322

      #1397
      Originally posted by etenguy View Post
      Apologies for messing up in my first post to the site with a bad example.
      Not at all, etenguy. It was an interesting post, which has stimulated discussion. It had never occurred to me that different types of killer might have different propensities for leaving messages, so thanks for the inspiration!

      A pretty good first post by any standards
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

      Comment

      • Callmebill
        Constable
        • Aug 2017
        • 78

        #1398
        Rader

        But there are serial killers who did leave messages.
        BTK, didn't he post messages in cereal packets? He wrote poetry about his murders.
        David Wilson Professor of Criminology:
        'Connection, connection, connection. There is no such thing as coincidence when you are dealing with serial killers.'

        Comment

        • etenguy
          Chief Inspector
          • Jul 2017
          • 1565

          #1399
          Originally posted by Callmebill View Post
          But there are serial killers who did leave messages.
          BTK, didn't he post messages in cereal packets? He wrote poetry about his murders.
          BTK went overboard - yes there was a cereal packet message, and poems and he sent some of the victim's possessions with some of them (cf the kidney allegedly sent by JTR). In fact, that was how they caught him. They traced one of his messages back to a computer that linked him to the crimes.

          Comment

          • Herlock Sholmes
            Commissioner
            • May 2017
            • 21816

            #1400
            Wasn't it William Heirens who left a message saying something like 'please stop me before I kill again?' A strange one considering he could have handed himself in.
            We can't really judge if Jack was the 'type' to leave a message. We don't know if any of the letters were genuine and he didn't leave any other chalked messages after the other murders.
            I still think that if we knew a) that the message definately wasnt there at 2.20 and then b) where did Jack go after he left Mitre Square, then we might be on firmer ground if we could then say 'why did he go to Goulston Street (with all the inherent risks) carrying a clue that he could have already have disposed of?'
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

            Comment

            • Joshua Rogan
              Assistant Commissioner
              • Jul 2015
              • 3205

              #1401
              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
              We don't know if any of the letters were genuine and he didn't leave any other chalked messages after the other murders.
              Maybe he did leave messages after previous murders, but nobody linked them to the killings, hence he left a piece of apron in Goulston Street?

              Comment

              • Sam Flynn
                Casebook Supporter
                • Feb 2008
                • 13322

                #1402
                Originally posted by Callmebill View Post
                But there are serial killers who did leave messages.
                Indeed. Perhaps, as per John G's suggestion, he was inspired by the Jack the Ripper case?
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment

                • Pcdunn
                  Superintendent
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 2323

                  #1403
                  Who inspired Jack?

                  Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                  Indeed. Perhaps, as per John G's suggestion, he was inspired by the Jack the Ripper case?
                  Hmm... Who or what inspired Jack to write letters or leave messages after his murders? An interesting research question for a determined Ripperologist.

                  Did any murderers prior to the Autumn of Terror crimes contact the authorities or leave notes with their corpses?
                  Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                  ---------------
                  Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                  ---------------

                  Comment

                  • Sam Flynn
                    Casebook Supporter
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 13322

                    #1404
                    Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                    Hmm... Who or what inspired Jack to write letters or leave messages after his murders?
                    On the letters front, I think that Dear Boss, almost certainly an enterprising journalist's invention, was the inspiration for all the others. (I wonder if the Ripper case was the first in history to have generated hoax letters to newspapers?)

                    As to who/what inspired any messages he may have left after the murders... what a useful segue back to the GSG
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment

                    • etenguy
                      Chief Inspector
                      • Jul 2017
                      • 1565

                      #1405
                      The poll outcome to date is that twice as many voters believe the Ripper did not write the GSG than believe he did. That's interesting.

                      If not him, then who?

                      PC Long trying to make a name for himself?
                      It was just general graffiti that no-one reported having seen previously?
                      A hoaxer who stole the apron segment from the crime scene?

                      I guess we'll never know, but I still err on the side it probably was the murderer.

                      Comment

                      • Herlock Sholmes
                        Commissioner
                        • May 2017
                        • 21816

                        #1406
                        Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                        Maybe he did leave messages after previous murders, but nobody linked them to the killings, hence he left a piece of apron in Goulston Street?
                        Hi Joshua,

                        That's a good point. Do we know how prevalent graffiti was at the time?
                        Regards

                        Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                        “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                        Comment

                        • Sam Flynn
                          Casebook Supporter
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 13322

                          #1407
                          Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                          That's a good point. Do we know how prevalent graffiti was at the time?
                          Given that there are surviving examples of graffiti dating back to Roman, even Ancient Egyptian, times, it seems to have been prevalent throughout history. It was certainly common in Victorian times.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment

                          • GUT
                            Commissioner
                            • Jan 2014
                            • 7841

                            #1408
                            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                            Hi Joshua,

                            That's a good point. Do we know how prevalent graffiti was at the time?
                            Well I've seen it in plenty of Victorian photos in certain areas, so I don't think you can say it was uncommon by any stretch.
                            G U T

                            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                            Comment

                            • Herlock Sholmes
                              Commissioner
                              • May 2017
                              • 21816

                              #1409
                              Any previous messages would have had to have been more obvious in content for them to have been noticed. If the GSG message had been written but no apron deposited it's unlikely that anyone would have connected it to the murder in Mitre Square. Everything is down to the apron, why it was taken away from Mitre Square and why it was dropped in that doorway (after an unexplained gap of time?)
                              Regards

                              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                              Comment

                              • Abby Normal
                                Commissioner
                                • Jun 2010
                                • 11901

                                #1410
                                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                                Hi Joshua,

                                That's a good point. Do we know how prevalent graffiti was at the time?
                                hi HS

                                there was no mention of any other graffiti in the immediate area. I'm sure graffiti was some what prevalent at the time, but not so much so that points to the coincidence that a bloody apron was found under graffiti that disparages jews on a night when the killer was interrupted by jews while trying to kill.

                                Too much of a coincidence-the killer wrote it.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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