The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Batman]

Hello Batman,

I'm a bit confused by your last reply. You suggest that Schwartz didn't witness at assault. Well, then he lied because he said he did, i.e he witnessed Stride being thrown to the ground and pulled in to the street.

You said "The assault hadn't taken place when Schwartz arrived!" to imply he had been seen, despite their being no indication of this until BSman calls out Lipski. Basically its a red herring to say BSman doesn't exist because he would have seen Schwartz.

It is your argument that it was light enough for Schwartz to notice detail like moustache colour and hair colour, but too dark for BS man to notice Schwartz and Pipeman!

Its amazing that you single out Schwartz for this detail when several others have given the exact same level of detail for Stride being seen in the company of another man.

I don't know why you persist with the argument that Stride and BS man were having some sort of tug of war match over the cachous.

I have never made such a suggestion. What I said was the idea there is no reason why she would have those items out is met with reasons such as thinking she was being robbed. His intentions can be as different as he wants them to be.

Anyway, as c.d. has proved, Stride would have naturally thrown out both arms to protect herself when thrown to the ground, thus dropping the cachous. Or do you believe Stride had "Ninja" training?

Well c.d has since corrected what you said so it puts this idea its impossible to not drop something to rest.

If Swanson didn't loose interest in Schwartz, please detail all the references to him after 1888. Why wasn't he utilized for ID purposes? Why was the Star the only newspaper to take Schwartz seriously?

The burden of proof is not on me to disprove your theory he lost interest. The burden is on you to show that he lost interest.

And, as noted, even they suggested his account was doubted.

And as noted in context Swanson LATER says there is no reason to doubt Schwartz, hence the Lipski investigation.

Why wasn't Stride dress damaged when she was dragged into the yard.

Again you can slide around in mud all day long and never damage an item of clothing.

Why didn't she cry out? If she did, why didn't Eagle and Mrs D hear anything?

According to Schwartz she did. They didn't hear anything because the inquest already indicated they where playing music and dancing.

Why do you say that pulling someone into the street is consistent with rendering them unconscious? How do you render someone unconscious in this way.

Throwing someone down can stun them.


Why is it that BSman couldn't have killed her because he badly judges when to attack and yet JtR couldn't have bad judgement if he was disturbed and didn't mutilate? Schwartz has given even reason why JtR didn't mutilate if he was disturbed.

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Batman.

"Seriously, you want a quiet assassin who can't load a cart and not make any noise."

I thought the discussion was about the club wishing to remove the body?

Big difference in:

1. the murderer wishing to remove his work

and

2. the club wishing NOT to be victimised by others

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

lodgings

Hello CD.

"As far as running past his own house, why show your pursuers where you live?"

But did he not flee incontinently to his lodgings?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

paranoid

Hello (again) CD.

"Even though the police did not like the club and its members, I don't see why club members would automatically feel the need to go into conspiracy mode. . ."

They were slightly paranoid. Think of their antecedents.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

code

Hello John.

"Please give examples of serial killers who attempted to murder victims in front of witnesses? You refer to "plenty" in your previous post. Is "Plenty" the name of a serial killer?"

Actually, it's code for "hand waving." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

no reason

Hello Batman.

"Swanson LATER says there is no reason to doubt Schwartz . . ."

No, he bases this on the police report. He never just says, "no reason."

Accuracy, please!

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Hello John.

"Please give examples of serial killers who attempted to murder victims in front of witnesses? You refer to "plenty" in your previous post. Is "Plenty" the name of a serial killer?"

Actually, it's code for "hand waving." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

For some reason I'm reminded of the Stevie Smith poem, "Not waving but drowning."
I'm also still confused as to why Batman thinks that it may have been too dark for BS man to have noticed the presence of Schwartz and Pipeman, and yet, at the same time, light enough for Schwartz to noticed hair and moustache colours.

[Batman]

I wasn't quoting him just pointing out the objections here where never reasons in the contemporary to doubt the series of events combining the inquest findings and Schwartz which lead to the Lipski investigation.

[lynn cates]

right

Hello John. Thanks.

"For some reason I'm reminded of the Stevie Smith poem, "Not waving but drowning.""

Well put.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

story

Hello batman. Thanks.

Swanson had no reason, based on the report, to doubt Schwartz. And he likely believed him, as did the HO and FO.

Coppers on the ground at Leman were a different story.

Cheers.
LC

[Harry D]

Batman - How do you reconcile BS Man with Mr. Blotchy?

[Batman]

Hello batman. Thanks.

Swanson had no reason, based on the report, to doubt Schwartz. And he likely believed him, as did the HO and FO.

Coppers on the ground at Leman were a different story.

Cheers.
LC

Prior to the eventual report.

[Batman]

Batman - How do you reconcile BS Man with Mr. Blotchy?

I recommend this. http://www.activehistory.co.uk/Misce...jacks_look.pdf

Coxes description isn't the best. She omits age for example and height is just short. I am guessing with the advent of Hutchinson's man they probably didn't push her more on it.

However there is this on CB - On March 28, 1888, while home alone at 19 Maidman Street, [Ada] Wilson answered a knock at the door to find a man of about 30 years of age, 5ft 6ins in height, with a sunburnt face and a fair moustache. He was wearing a dark coat, light trousers and a wideawake hat. The man forced his way into the room and demanded money, and when she refused he stabbed her twice in the throat and ran, leaving her for dead. It is reported that nearby neighbours almost captured the man, but he found his escape.


The problem I think with JtR is that he appears as common looking and mundane as can be for a person at that time, hence why there is rarely anything significant about how they look. The sunburnt face could be just drinking flushes.

[Harry D]

Yes, I think there's a sound possibility that Ada Wilson's attacker was the same man seen by Mrs. Cox. For 'sunburnt' read 'blotchy'.

Cox said that the man had a full, ginger ('carroty') moustache, whereas BS Man had a small, dark moustache. Obviously, the length of his beard is variable, but the colour?

[Batman]

Erethism

Yes, I think there's a sound possibility that Ada Wilson's attacker was the same man seen by Mrs. Cox. For 'sunburnt' read 'blotchy'.

Cox said that the man had a full, ginger ('carroty') moustache, whereas BS Man had a small, dark moustache. Obviously, the length of his beard is variable, but the colour?

Since JtR was hatted, determining his hair colour has been a problem. Then we have the darkness to consider. All in all, I think that Cox probably got the better look at the man because she had a light burning outside her door as they walked passed. She may even be the best witness we have.


BTW - on the hat issue. JtR may have owned many hats and may have even participated in making them. Around this time there was a problem with hats. It was called Mad-hatters disease and guess what colour your face goes from mercury poisoning (Erethism). Not to mention psychotic reactions.