The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Abby Normal]

I think there are significant problems with Hutchinson's evidence, although I also believe there's the possibility that he exaggerated rather than lied. If so, maybe Astrakhan Man could be my main suspects Francis Thompson. Or then again, perhaps not! On the other hand, I think Schwartz's evidence is deeply flawed and largely incompatible with the known facts.

However, I do believe, on balance of probabilities, that Stride was killed by JtR. On the other hand, if she was killed by Schwartz's suspect, I would consider it highly unlikely that she was killed by JtR.

Hi JohnG
thanks for laying out your cards on the table---But Francis Thompson??

Im sorry folks when we have people who have highly controversial, and quite frankly, fringe ideas, about suspects like Francis Thompson, or issenshmidt, or the well dressed man suspect, it really makes me question the soundness of their reasoning and motive for debating on anything suspect related. Especially, when they debate till they're blue in the face about something as mundane that BS man could have been stride's killer-basically maintaining the ludicrous position that since caschous were found in her hand that BS man could not have been her killer.
Its piling wackiness upon wackiness.

Im honestly not trying to be a jerk, but I don't get it. I really don't.

[John G]

Hi JohnG
thanks for laying out your cards on the table---But Francis Thompson??

Im sorry folks when we have people who have highly controversial, and quite frankly, fringe ideas, about suspects like Francis Thompson, or issenshmidt, or the well dressed man suspect, it really makes me question the soundness of their reasoning and motive for debating on anything suspect related. Especially, when they debate till they're blue in the face about something as mundane that BS man could have been stride's killer-basically maintaining the ludicrous position that since caschous were found in her hand that BS man could not have been her killer.
Its piling wackiness upon wackiness.

Im honestly not trying to be a jerk, but I don't get it. I really don't.

Francis Thompson is a reasonable suspect, although like every other suspect the evidence is circumstantial and nothing like conclusive. No reasonable counter arguments have been provided for the cachous problem, and the BS man believers strategy now seems to be to ignore it in the hope it'll go away. Mind you, I suppose that's understandable as it's so devastating to their argument.

[Batman]

Francis Thompson is a reasonable suspect, although like every other suspect the evidence is circumstantial and nothing like conclusive. No reasonable counter arguments have been provided for the cachous problem, and the BS man believers strategy now seems to be to ignore it in the hope it'll go away. Mind you, I suppose that's understandable as it's so devastating to their argument.

The cachous argument also proposed there was no reason why she should take out the sweets if he was indicating he would attack.

Yet a simple suggestion that she thought returning sweets would calm him down is not a counter-argument?

This happens in hold-ups all the time. Someone gets aggressive with a weapon and people give them stuff to go away.

It really isn't the impossibleness you make it out to be John.

[John G]

The cachous argument also proposed there was no reason why she should take out the sweets if he was indicating he would attack.

Yet a simple suggestion that she thought returning sweets would calm him down is not a counter-argument?

This happens in hold-ups all the time. Someone gets aggressive with a weapon and people give them stuff to go away.

It really isn't the impossibleness you make it out to be John.

Oh dear! Abby, in her previous post, mentions wacky theories- I just mention that in passing. So, if I've understood you correctly, your latest theory is that Stride attempted to dissuade BS man from assaulting her, and slitting her throat, by offering him a sweet! Yes, that makes perfect sense!

[Abby Normal]

Francis Thompson is a reasonable suspect, although like every other suspect the evidence is circumstantial and nothing like conclusive. No reasonable counter arguments have been provided for the cachous problem, and the BS man believers strategy now seems to be to ignore it in the hope it'll go away. Mind you, I suppose that's understandable as it's so devastating to their argument.

Im sorry JohnG
Francis Thompson is NOT a reasonable suspect. Most objective observers and experts on this case would agree, and the evidence for all other suspects is NOT circumstantial-Koz has a possible eye witness ID. And the circumstantial evidence for other viable suspects is much more strong than FT its not even close. FT has no connection to the case AT ALL for starters.

Re the Caschous: the only "Problem" is with people like yourself(and the onus is on you and the other caschou crowd BTW) who use the inane idea that because they were found in her hand, BS man could not have been her killer. And no one arguing otherwise has been giving-

No reasonable counter arguments have been provided for the cachous problem, and the BS man believers strategy now seems to be to ignore it in the hope it'll go away

what the heck do you think the last 100 or so pages have been about?

[Abby Normal]

Oh dear! Abby, in her previous post, mentions wacky theories- I just mention that in passing. So, if I've understood you correctly, your latest theory is that Stride attempted to dissuade BS man from assaulting her, and slitting her throat, by offering him a sweet! Yes, that makes perfect sense!

Hi JohnG
I usually agree with BM, but not allways, just a few posts ago actually-and not here either if this is his idea.

BTW-Im a dude. You know-Young Frankenstein and all that.
It was also the name of my band.

[John G]

Im sorry JohnG
Francis Thompson is NOT a reasonable suspect. Most objective observers and experts on this case would agree, and the evidence for all other suspects is NOT circumstantial-Koz has a possible eye witness ID. And the circumstantial evidence for other viable suspects is much more strong than FT its not even close. FT has no connection to the case AT ALL for starters.

Re the Caschous: the only "Problem" is with people like yourself(and the onus is on you and the other caschou crowd BTW) who use the inane idea that because they were found in her hand, BS man could not have been her killer. And no one arguing otherwise has been giving-



what the heck do you think the last 100 or so pages have been about?

Okay, so just out of interest, what's your explanation for the cachous still being in Stride's hand following the assault "witnessed" by Schwartz, and her subsequent murder? Also, what's your explanation for the fact that James Brown's evidence contradicts Schwartz's? Also, what's your explanation for the fact that nobody in the club heard anything? Also, what's your explanation for Scwartz coming forward with his evidence? After all, Lawende didn't come forward with his evidence, and Schwartz, an immigrant from a country where he may have been persecuted by the police, had no reason to trust the authorities.

Mind you, I agree with your view of the Kosminski's ID. I mean, Lawende's identification was several years after a brief observation of a suspect, in poor lighting conditions, who he hardly seemed to notice anyway. But that's obviously a minor detail. After all, we've now got conclusive forensic evidence courtesy of Russel Edwards and Jari L!

On the other hand, Thompson was probably living just 100 yards from where Kelly was murdered (where's the evidence Kosminski was anywhere near any murder scene?). He was also a childhood arsonist, like the majority of serial killers. As a child, he mutilated a doll, like Berkowitz. He trained for 6 years as a surgeon. His only relationship was with a prostitute, not untypical of serial killers. He seemed unconcerned that his landlady had died in a fire that he'd started, and made no attempt to rescue her, suggesting he may have been psychotic...

[Batman]

Why reject Swanson who with White is more than capable of exposing faux witnesses like Packard. Would still love to hear why Schwartz didn't get investigated just as rigourly as Packard.

[lynn cates]

professional bingo player

Hello John.

"But there is nothing in the Police Report to suggest that Stride would have necessarily sustained a shoulder injury. The official report simply refers to BS man attempting to pull Stride into the street, turning her around, and throwing her on to the footpath. And where does Schwartz say that BS man was carrying a knife?"

Bingo, again.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

no ripper

Hello (again) John.

"The club wasn't full-most people had left by the time of the incident allegedly witnessed by Schwartz. Thus, there were about 150 people in attendance during the talk, but only about 20-30 people who stayed behind afterwards."

Not to mention there was NO "ripper" at this time, only a 3 week lull in the "Leather Apron" killings.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello CD.

"Pushing someone to the ground doesn't make you the Ripper.

If he had to do something the best course of action would be to walk away after being seen."

Quite. No repercussions at all.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

inane

Hello Abby.

"the only "Problem" is with people like yourself (and the onus is on you and the other cashou crowd BTW) who use the inane idea that because they were found in her hand, BS man could not have been her killer."

Inane ONLY to those who cannot follow a simple forensic recreation. John has no problem on that head.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Abby.

"the only "Problem" is with people like yourself (and the onus is on you and the other cashou crowd BTW) who use the inane idea that because they were found in her hand, BS man could not have been her killer."

Inane ONLY to those who cannot follow a simple forensic recreation. John has no problem on that head.

Cheers.
LC

Ah yes the special mystery man who isn't BSman but is capable of the stuff he does, but in a special way right? Like your special man can attack a woman and have her still holding sweets in her hand, but BSman can't right?

Love the way you paint BSman like a reprobate and then introduce James Bond in stealth gear as the culprit.

[John G]

Why reject Swanson who with White is more than capable of exposing faux witnesses like Packard. Would still love to hear why Schwartz didn't get investigated just as rigourly as Packard.

I think the police were desperate for a breakthrough, and in Schwartz, for the first time, they had a witness who apparently got a good look at a suspect. However, what is interesting is that very few newspapers picked up on the story. And the one newspaper that did seem to take Schwartz seriously, The Star, introduced the caveat that "the truth of the man's statement is not wholly accepted.

It's also relevant that George Hutchinson was believed initially, to the extent that the police put significant resources into trying to find his suspect, but the authorities seemed to have rapidly lost confidence in his account. Similarly, Schwartz doesn't seem to have been utilized when the time came to identify major suspects, i.e Saddler, Kosminski, Grainger. In fact, Lawende, who on the face of it was a far less important witness, because he didn't get a good look at his suspect, was clearly the police's prime witness. This suggests to me that, like Hutchinson, this is a witness that the police had no long term, faith in.

What I also find odd, as I've noted before, is his willingness to quickly come forward. After all, he probably emigrated to Britain in order to escape persecution in Hungary, so you expect that he would be naturally distrustful of the police and authority in general, and that his inclination would be not to get involved. That seems to be the case with Lawende, Levy and Harris, for instance, who failed to come forward as witnesses, but were subsequently identified as a result of police enquiries. And, unlike Schwartz, they were able to speak English, so if anything you would expect them to be less reluctant witnesses than Schwartz.

And the time of his sighting seems suspicious to me. Thus, he mentions seeing the altercation at 12:45, although there's no indication that he had a watch, so this would probably have to be an estimate. However, by giving that time he essentially provides an alibi to both Eagle, who says he returned to the club at 12:35, and Lave, who supposedly went back inside at 12:40.

Of course, we also have the statement of PC Smith and James Brown, that appear to contradict Schwartz. I wonder if all of these factors lead the police to question Schwartz's evidence and loose faith in him.

[John G]

Ah yes the special mystery man who isn't BSman but is capable of the stuff he does, but in a special way right? Like your special man can attack a woman and have her still holding sweets in her hand, but BSman can't right?

Love the way you paint BSman like a reprobate and then introduce James Bond in stealth gear as the culprit.

No, it just requires a more subtle, i.e. less stupid, assailant who caught Stride by surprise and didn't throw her to the ground, following a direct assault in front of two witnesses.

Foreman of the Jury: "Do you not think the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?"

Dr Phillips: " That is an inference, which the jury would be perfectly entitled to draw."

And that is no doubt why in Dr Phillips' scenario Stride was "placed on the ground." Note, not pulled, spun around, and then thrown to the ground.

As you've noted yourself, citing Ted Bundy, successful serial killers don't have to be highly intelligent and organised. However, even Bundy wasn't stupid enough to launch direct assaults against victims, in public places and in front of witnesses.