The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[c.d.]

The conclusion that the killer was anti-semitic is based upon the belief that:

1. the killer wrote the GSG which may or may not be the case;

2. the GSG is anti-semitic which may or may not be the case (citing the opinion of Warren and others is not proof since they did not write it. Only the author knows for sure what he intended);

3. Schwartz was the recipient of an anti-semitic slur which may or may not be the case since he himself was not sure.

Hardly a rock solid foundation for concluding that the killer is anti-semitic.

c.d.

[Batman]

If the police seriously believed that JtR was antisemitic, can you explain why both Swanson and Anderson considered Kosminski such a strong suspect? In fact, both of the aforementioned officers, who were leading the inquiry, seem to have little doubt that he was JtR.

Did they believe that Kosminski was driven by antisemitism? I think not.

Is there any evidence either thought him JtR? Swanson simply names the person who Anderson is talking about. Anderson is talking about few suspects.

Having accepted Kominski was JtR for a long time I no longer accept that because of the anti-Semetic clues here that get rejected for many Jewish suspects.

Plus there isn't much evidence against him.

I'm in the dark as much about what Swanson is describing as much as anyone else. There are lots of errors in the memoires.

[John G]

Is there any evidence either thought him JtR? Swanson simply names the person who Anderson is talking about. Anderson is talking about few suspects.

Having accepted Kominski was JtR for a long time I no longer accept that because of the anti-Semetic clues here that get rejected for many Jewish suspects.

Plus there isn't much evidence against him.

I'm in the dark as much about what Swanson is describing as much as anyone else. There are lots of errors in the memoires.

Well, I would argue that the modern consensus is in favour of Kosminski. In any event, Anderson clearly implies that the suspect was Jewish, as he says the witness, probably Lawende, refused to testify against a "fellow Jew".

I'm also somewhat confused by your reasoning: you previously argued that JtR was a lust killer, now you seem to be suggesting he was motivated by antisemitism. Have you embarked on a dramatic reappraisal of your ideas?

[Batman]

The conclusion that the killer was anti-semitic is based upon the belief that:

1. the killer wrote the GSG which may or may not be the case;

2. the GSG is anti-semitic which may or may not be the case (citing the opinion of Warren and others is not proof since they did not write it. Only the author knows for sure what he intended);

3. Schwartz was the recipient of an anti-semitic slur which may or may not be the case since he himself was not sure.

Hardly a rock solid foundation for concluding that the killer is anti-semitic.

c.d.

I don't have a problem with global scepticism. The problem I have is when people drop that line of reasoning when it comes to arbitrarily accepting things that have the same degree of uncertainty.

[Batman]

Well, I would argue that the modern consensus is in favour of Kosminski.

The votes on CB here are actually not so much for him at all. As for noted authors, by the time Sugden had been read many people questioned Fido's suspect. The latest book by House is good, but it was actually that book that got me to change my mind and I think Sugden was right.

In any event, Anderson clearly implies that the suspect was Jewish, as he says the witness, probably Lawende, refused to testify against a "fellow Jew".

We simply don't know because there is a lot of mistakes in their memoires and marginalia. The witness is a PC for example. From what I have read, including House, it not much more clearer than when it was first connected along with Fido's book. People have tried to make sense of it, but I have not seen anything satisfactory.

I'm also somewhat confused by your reasoning: you previously argued that JtR was a lust killer, now you seem to be suggesting he was motivated by antisemitism. Have you embarked on a dramatic reappraisal of your ideas?

I answered that here-> http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...postcount=1124

Quote which part you don't get, please.

[c.d.]

I don't have a problem with global scepticism. The problem I have is when people drop that line of reasoning when it comes to arbitrarily accepting things that have the same degree of uncertainty.

In English please.

c.d.

[Batman]

In English please.

c.d.

I don't mind being doubtful over something that lacks good evidence for it, I just find that quite often the people saying this forget about it themselves when it comes to their own arguments. A type of hypocrisy, but usual of the unintentional kind. It just requires that if one takes a stance over criteria for what they accept and reject, they should stand by it throughout.

Basically your list is fine, but its criteria one should maintain then.

[c.d.]

I don't mind being doubtful over something that lacks good evidence for it, I just find that quite often the people saying this forget about it themselves when it comes to their own arguments. A type of hypocrisy, but usual of the unintentional kind. It just requires that if one takes a stance over criteria for what they accept and reject, they should stand by it throughout.

Basically your list is fine, but its criteria one should maintain then.

Agreed. Unfortunately, pretty much everybody who posts on these boards is guilty of this sin at one time or another.

c.d.

[c.d.]

By the way, Batman, you and I are in agreement that Jack killed Stride however I don't think that the B.S. man was her killer or that he was Jack.

I would be interested why you reject the idea of Jack coming along after the B.S. man had left the scene.

c.d.

[John G]

The votes on CB here are actually not so much for him at all. As for noted authors, by the time Sugden had been read many people questioned Fido's suspect. The latest book by House is good, but it was actually that book that got me to change my mind and I think Sugden was right.



We simply don't know because there is a lot of mistakes in their memoires and marginalia. The witness is a PC for example. From what I have read, including House, it not much more clearer than when it was first connected along with Fido's book. People have tried to make sense of it, but I have not seen anything satisfactory.



I answered that here-> http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...postcount=1124

Quote which part you don't get, please.

I think that there can be little doubt that Anderson's and Swanson's prime suspect, and prime witness, were both Jewish. If JtR was a lust killer, as you have previously argued, then that was clearly his motivation, not antisemitism.

I am getting very confused about your ideas. I mean, not long ago you seem to be quite attached to what Abby referred to as your "Ripperstein"/ Frankenripper theory. This was clearly a major departure from your previous lust killer analysis, and now you seem to be advocating that JtR was primarily driven by antisemitism!

[Batman]

I think that there can be little doubt that Anderson's and Swanson's prime suspect, and prime witness, were both Jewish. If JtR was a lust killer, as you have previously argued, then that was clearly his motivation, not antisemitism.

I don't think you are answering the questions I have put forward on that link. Nobody has said, in the contemporary or now, that JtR was primarily motivated by anti-Semiticism.

Can a serial killer be an anti-Semite? Its really that simple.

I am getting very confused about your ideas. I mean, not long ago you seem to be quite attached to what Abby referred to as your "Ripperstein"/ Frankenripper theory. This was clearly a major departure from your previous lust killer analysis, and now you seem to be advocating that JtR was primarily driven by antisemitism!

Not at all. You are one saying its a primary drive. I'm saying its just part of his behaviour.

Gordon already covered Chapman/Torso/Ripper connections. The only bit I added is the possibility JtR was harvesting sexual parts from prostitutes to replace those on a corpse he was keeping. Some SKs have kept bodies. This has explanatory power for his harvesting of sexual organs, something very rare in this type of crime. He is a lust killer. No change there. The Frankenstein connection is actually contemporary if you read about Shelly's family and the torso parts being dumped.

[J6123]

Even Abberline appears to have favoured a Jew as the killer, and he was the man who suggested that "Lipski" was an antisimetic taunt directed at Schwartz.

[John G]

I don't think you are answering the questions I have put forward on that link. Nobody has said, in the contemporary or now, that JtR was primarily motivated by anti-Semiticism.

Can a serial killer be an anti-Semite? Its really that simple.



Not at all. You are one saying its a primary drive. I'm saying its just part of his behaviour.

Gordon already covered Chapman/Torso/Ripper connections. The only bit I added is the possibility JtR was harvesting sexual parts from prostitutes to replace those on a corpse he was keeping. Some SKs have kept bodies. This has explanatory power for his harvesting of sexual organs, something very rare in this type of crime. He is a lust killer. No change there. The Frankenstein connection is actually contemporary if you read about Shelly's family and the torso parts being dumped.

This is just a tentative suggestion, but I feel that you ought to be a little more critical of Gordon's theories! As I've argued before, The Torso Killer was not JtR, and dumping body parts in the garden of Shelly's ancestor is perfectly consistent with his tendency to play macabre jokes.

[John G]

Hello John.

"And, as I noted in my earlier post, why were none of the victims Jewish if the killer was driven by anti-Semitism? It simply makes no sense."

Precisely. No sense at all.

But Batman is now YOUR student as I consider him ineducable.

Have fun with this.

Good luck. You'll need it.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

That's very generous of you, but I'm beginning to sense that Batman doesn't quite see things the way I do. I have also concluded that many of his/ Gordon's ideas are not exactly mainstream in the world of Ripperology!

[Batman]

By the way, Batman, you and I are in agreement that Jack killed Stride however I don't think that the B.S. man was her killer or that he was Jack.

I would be interested why you reject the idea of Jack coming along after the B.S. man had left the scene.

c.d.

Basically it is about recognizing the alternatives for what they are. In this case it is yet another coincidence argument that Stride was attacked by someone else minutes before JtR attacked her.