The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[lynn cates]

outward bound

Hello Abby.

"Then I think Stride stumbles into the yard toward voices/help but expires in the yard."

She was clearly headed OUT of the yard when she died.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Inspector Lastrade lives

Hello John. Yes, indeed. She was headed out--not in.

Sheesh! Inspector Lastrade lives.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

when?

Hello Jon.

"or pushed backwards a yard or two from where she is standing in the gateway"

Before or after her throat is cut? Before or after she is turned round and thrown down?

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

But weren't her legs pointed towards the get as if she was walking away from the Yard, i.e. attemtping to exit the yard?

IMHO its pointless which direction her body lay. she could have moved in any direction or fallen in any direction once in the yard, or fallen and tried to get up or turned her body in any direction, or if a struggle took place in the yard, they could have turned in any direction during the struggle and /or her killer could have lain her in any direction.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, me too. Extremely unlikely



Possibly, but Schwartz tells us that BS Man pushed her into the passage and down, where she was found a few minutes later.

well in one version he says he pulled her toward the road.

[Abby Normal]

The more I think about it-I think the most likely scenario is that Schwartz witnesses the initial assault, leaves, stride breaks away from BS man and flees into the yard(towards the voices and possible help from IMWC) , where he catches her, possibly grabbing her scarf from behind and pulling on it, possibly strangling her with it, cuts her throat and then flees. She dies in the yard basically where he catches her.

[John G]

well in one version he says he pulled her toward the road.

Exactly! As I noted in post 913. It is the Star's version that suggests she was pushed into the yard, not the official police version.

[John G]

The more I think about it-I think the most likely scenario is that Schwartz witnesses the initial assault, leaves, stride breaks away from BS man and flees into the yard(towards the voices and possible help from IMWC) , where he catches her, possibly grabbing her scarf from behind and pulling on it, possibly strangling her with it, cuts her throat and then flees. She dies in the yard basically where he catches her.

Not sure about this. According to Fanny Mortimer Mrs D was sat in the kitchen. just feet away, with the window open. I think she would have heard all this commotion.

[lynn cates]

big point

Hello Abby.

"IMHO its pointless which direction her body lay."

No, there is a BIG point.

"She could have moved in any direction or fallen in any direction once in the yard, or fallen and tried to get up or turned her body in any direction"

The doctors said she could not have moved (except to draw up her knees) after her throat was cut.

"or if a struggle took place in the yard, they could have turned in any direction during the struggle and /or her killer could have lain her in any direction."

No. No sign of struggle. It was as if her body was "lain gently down."

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

last words

Hello (again) Abby.

"Stride breaks away from BS man and flees into the yard (towards the voices and possible help from IMWC) , where he catches her, possibly grabbing her scarf from behind and pulling on it, possibly strangling her with it, cuts her throat and then flees. She dies in the yard basically where he catches her."

But, in the midst of this, he overruns her to the west whilst she doubles back east. Her last words? "Not til I have one last cachou." (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Not sure about this. According to Fanny Mortimer Mrs D was sat in the kitchen. just feet away, with the window open. I think she would have heard all this commotion.

Not with all the singing going on inside the club and/or stride is not yelling out/loudly.

[John G]

Not with all the singing going on inside the club and/or stride is not yelling out/loudly.

Why did the couple observed by Mrs Mortimer, just 20 yards away, not see or hear any of this commotion, including the initial assault by BS man and the subsequent shout of Lipski?

[Harry D]

My problem with BS being the Ripper is already documented, i.e. what would a stealthy killer be doing attacking a woman in plain sight of witnesses in front of a busy social club. Then again, I'm of the opinion that the killer was a disorganized one, so it's entirely possible this was one of those instances where we witness his lack of self-control, but that still leaves us with those damn cachous. There's no convincing scenario where Liz would still be holding onto the breath mints if her killer was BS. That would mean she held onto them whilst he roughed her up, dragged her into the yard and slit her throat, or alternatively she willingly went with him after he had just attacked her.

However, how unlucky would Liz have to be that night to have an altercation with one violent man only to run straight into the Ripper's clutches?

[John G]

My problem with BS being the Ripper is already documented, i.e. what would a stealthy killer be doing attacking a woman in plain sight of witnesses in front of a busy social club. Then again, I'm of the opinion that the killer was a disorganized one, so it's entirely possible this was one of those instances where we witness his lack of self-control, but that still leaves us with those damn cachous. There's no convincing scenario where Liz would still be holding onto the breath mints if her killer was BS. That would mean she held onto them whilst he roughed her up, dragged her into the yard and slit her throat, or alternatively she willingly went with him after he had just attacked her.

However, how unlucky would Liz have to be that night to have an altercation with one violent man only to run straight into the Ripper's clutches?

Hi Harry,

Excellent post. Very succinctly put. And then, of course, there's the tricky problem of the couple, referred to by Fanny Mortimer, who were stood just 20 yards away during, according to Mortimer, and after the time the murder must have taken place. They didn't see or hear anything. Not Scwartz. Not Pipeman. Not BS man. Nor the altercation. Nor Stride's cries. Nor the shout of "Lipski"

And then there's Scwartz's second account, given to the Star, which has Pipeman shouting out an alarm, before rushing at him with a knife!

[Batman]

Total recall

I have quoted this many times

Foreman of the Jury: "Do you think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?"

Dr Philips: "That is an inference, which the jury would be perfectly entitle do draw?"

Hi John,

If you read on you will see that the inquest asked the doctors to come back to answer the questions.

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_stride.html

Surely if you are accepting the cachous hypothesis you have read the next sentence involving them which follows the above and says...

Dr. Blackwell [recalled] (who assisted in making the post-mortem examination) said: I can confirm Dr. Phillips as to the appearances at the mortuary. I may add that I removed the cachous from the left hand of the deceased, which was nearly open. The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view. It was I who spilt them in removing them from the hand. My impression is that the hand gradually relaxed while the woman was dying, she dying in a fainting condition from the loss of blood.

Recalled, means he was asked back to answer these questions.

The bit underlined is the explanation.