The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Jon Guy]

And to claim that they levitated upward from palm to thumb/finger is ludicrous.

We`ve been over this a million times, but just for the sake of old times.. when a person is standing upright the fingers and thumb are "south" of the palm. Agreed ?
Which way will they fall when the hand relaxes ? Up or down ?

[Batman]

Hello (again) Batman. Quick search found this.

"One of the most persistent myths, however, concerns the relationship of humans to great apes, a group of primates that includes the gorilla, orangutan and chimpanzee. Someone who believes the myth will say, "If evolution exists, then humans must be descended directly from apes. Apes must have changed, step by step, into humans." This same person will often follow up with this observation: "If apes 'turned into' humans, then apes should no longer exist." Although there are several ways to attack this assertion, the bottom-line rebuttal is simple -- humans didn't descend from apes. That's not to say humans and apes aren't related, but the relationship can't be traced backward along a direct line of descent, one form morphing into another. It must be traced along two independent lines, far back into time until the two lines merge."

You SURE your degree is in biology? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Just get over yourself man and stop quoting some blog somewhere as a good source for this.

->>> Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɨdiː/), also known as great apes.

End of story.

[Abby Normal]

Louis Diemschutz`s inquest statement :

I went into the club and asked where my wife was. I found her in the front room on the ground floor
The Daily telegraph, Tuesday, October 2, 1888




And just before this question, Doctor Phillips was asked:

[Coroner] Does the presence of the cachous in the left hand indicate that the murder was committed very suddenly and without any struggle? -
[Phillips] Some of the cachous were scattered about the yard.



Yes, Stride`s left hand was over the gutter near the wall but how come they were scattered all over the yard ?



Yes, thanks. I answered them all a few posts back



No, I said that it was the victim who led the killer to their place of death.
In Stride`s case, I have argued that she was already standing in her place of death when BS Man approached her. Her feet were found about 3 or 4 feet away from she was standing - one good push away (which is what Schwartz saw)




She appears to have refused the man, or at least refuses to go with him, until she is then thrown down. Can`t see any willingness on her part. Again, I answered this a few posts back earlier



Firstly, BS Man may not have been JTR.
Secondly, Jack the Ripper, a subtle murderer :-) You`re kidding ?



Her windpipe had been severed.
he was choking her with her scarf
She was using her energy to free herself rather than scream like Fay Wray

Hi John

he was choking her with her scarf

I had made a point of the scarf pulled tightly a while back as maybe a reason for lack of blood on her clothes or on the road/passageway if she had her throat cut after he pulls it tight but before being in the position where her body was found. Kind of like a tourniquet affect. The gash to her throat was directly above the scarf on her neck. (but of course no one commented).

Inference meaning she could have had her throat cut anywhere from on the street or in the yard up to where her body was found. Many posters have used the fact that no blood was found in the street or on her clothes as proof that she had her throat cut where she lay.


What do you think?

[Jon Guy]

Hi John



I had made a point of the scarf pulled tightly a while back as maybe a reason for lack of blood on her clothes or on the road/passageway if she had her throat cut after he pulls it tight but before being in the position where her body was found. Kind of like a tourniquet affect. The gash to her throat was directly above the scarf on her neck. (but of course no one commented).

Inference meaning she could have had her throat cut anywhere from on the street or in the yard up to where her body was found. Many posters have used the fact that no blood was found in the street or on her clothes as proof that she had her throat cut where she lay.


What do you think?

Hi Abby

I`d agree with you but for the bruises on Strides shoulder.
I think that she (just like McKenzie) was forced down by the shoulders, and then her scarf was pulled back exposing her throat.

What do you think about the bruising ?

[John G]

Show me where he disagrees and make sure you put this in the context of their return after the Jury asked them questions.

I have quoted this many times

Foreman of the Jury: "Do you think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?"

Dr Philips: "That is an inference, which the jury would be perfectly entitle do draw?"

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

I`d agree with you but for the bruises on Strides shoulder.
I think that she (just like McKenzie) was forced down by the shoulders, and then her scarf was pulled back exposing her throat.

What do you think about the bruising ?

HI Jon
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
For example (yours)-

"I think that she (just like McKenzie) was forced down by the shoulders, and then her scarf was pulled back exposing her throat. "

and then cuts her throat? maybe in the street after Schwartz leaves, maybe as stride is trying to get away by running to the yard (towards help and the voices).

I think the bruises probably came from him pushing her to the ground by the shoulders-perhaps what Schwartz somewhat describes. or later.

[John G]

Hello Jon,

No cachous were found outside the yard. So for completeness, that doesn't explain how spillage was avoided by the impact of Stride hitting the ground. In fact, Dr Phillips seems to think that she would have dropped the packet altogether as a consequence of this impact.

Even if Mrs D was in the ground floor front room, with the window open, it still means that she heard nothing, including the shout of "Lipski", despite being yards away from where the altercation took place.

I'm curious, when BS man saw Stride she was clearly outside the Yard. However, you say she "was standing in her place of death" when BS man approached her. So how did she get inside the yard? Why was there no blood found outside the yard?

You say that Schwartz witnessed a push, Well, he did according to the press report, but not the police report. Obviously a contradiction in his evidence. Oops!

[Jon Guy]

HI Jon
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
For example (yours)-

"I think that she (just like McKenzie) was forced down by the shoulders, and then her scarf was pulled back exposing her throat. "

and then cuts her throat? maybe in the street after Schwartz leaves, maybe as stride is trying to get away by running to the yard (towards help and the voices).

I think the bruises probably came from him pushing her to the ground by the shoulders-perhaps what Schwartz somewhat describes. or later.

Hi Abby

What if Schwartz was witnessing her murder, and didn`t know it.
The killer walking off after realising he has just been seen by Schwartz

I know it`s possible, but the chances of Stride been assaulted twice in ten minutes is pretty slim.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

What if Schwartz was witnessing her murder, and didn`t know it.
The killer walking off after realising he has just been seen by Schwartz

I know it`s possible, but the chances of Stride been assaulted twice in ten minutes is pretty slim.

Hi Jon
I've always found that scenario very unlikely. The BS man +1 scenario that is.

However, if this happened:

(and I have always felt this is very possible)

What if Schwartz was witnessing her murder, and didn`t know it.
The killer walking off after realising he has just been seen by Schwartz

Then I think Stride stumbles into the yard toward voices/help but expires in the yard.

[John G]

Hi Jon
I've always found that scenario very unlikely. The BS man +1 scenario that is.

However, if this happened:

(and I have always felt this is very possible)



Then I think Stride stumbles into the yard toward voices/help but expires in the yard.

Hi Abby,

But weren't her legs pointed towards the get as if she was walking away from the Yard, i.e. attemtping to exit the yard?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
I've always found that scenario very unlikely. The BS man +1 scenario that is.

Yes, me too. Extremely unlikely

However, if this happened:

(and I have always felt this is very possible)

Then I think Stride stumbles into the yard toward voices/help but expires in the yard.

Possibly, but Schwartz tells us that BS Man pushed her into the passage and down, where she was found a few minutes later.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Abby,

But weren't her legs pointed towards the get as if she was walking away from the Yard, i.e. attemtping to exit the yard?

.. .. or pushed backwards a yard or two from where she is standing in the gateway (as Schwartz described)

[John G]

.. .. or pushed backwards a yard or two from where she is standing in the gateway (as Schwartz described)

Hello Jon,

But in the official police report she is thrown down on the footway, according to Schwartz. It is only in the Star version that she's pushed back into the passage. But if you accept this version, then we have an accomplice, Pipeman, rushing towards Schwartz with a knife.

Moreover, the impact still failed to dislodge the cachous, which Dr Phillips seems to think unlikely. It has also been argued, in a dissertation on this site, that being thrown to the ground should have resulted in injuries to the palm of her hands and her knees, but no such injuries are described in the post mortem report.

As I've also noted, no one heard the cry of Lipski, either, or heard evidence of an altercation. This despite the fact that the windows were open, and Mrs D was close by in the kitchen or ground floor front room: on this point, here's another quote from the Daily Telegraph, October, 1, by Fanny Mortimer:

"It was also incredible to me that the thing could have been done without the steward's wife hearing a noise, for she was in the kitchen from which a window opens four yards from the spot where the woman was found...A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about 20 yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound."

Of course, we now seem to have not only Mrs D, but the couple stood 20 yards away, who failed to see or hear the altercation described by Schwartz.

[lynn cates]

levity of levitation

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Yes, we have. So you should know better by now.

If they are in her palm (palm facing upwards) they will go nowhere. If, however, they are as the doctors described, between thumb and forefinger, they will drop into her palm.

But, most definitely, they will NOT be levitated upward from palm to thumb. Nor will they move into a sudden gap between thumb and finger, only to close around them again.

Better leave levitation and miracles to St. Thomas Aquinas, eh?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

degree

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Hmm, think your BS degree came from Costco. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC