The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Batman]

1st responders

Hello Batman.

"Did you forget about the fact Swanson followed through by saying they have no reason to doubt the story?"

He said no such thing. He said:

"If Schwartz is to be believed, and the police report of his statement casts no doubt upon it . . ."

Accuracy, lad!

Cheers.
LC

If you want to bend this to mean Swanson didn't accept Schwartz witness testimony your going to have to run a gauntlet of home office documents to the contrary plus the well documented Lipski investigation that you would have us and Abberline believe is a wild goose chase... All because your Conan Doyle approach to a pack of loosely held sweets directly infers all this? I think too much TV and too little listening to first responders.

Thanks.

[Jon Guy]

The incidentals of where he stood make no difference in my estimate. The killer did strike her from her right side while she looked away - perhaps he turned her around to check her clothing was not soiled, then he strikes.
But, regardless, this must be when she took out, or was given the cachous.
.

Why must it be then when she took them out, Jon ?

Given the facts we have to work with, she was probably holding onto them whilst she was standing alone in the gateway.

I`m not sure about how you concluded she was looking away ?

[Jon Guy]

Hi HarryD
anyone can lose their temper.

My take is that after spending considerable time and money on Stride, and she still refusing to accompany him to a secluded spot he simply lost his temper and attacked her.

Yes, that`s a very reasonable assumption, Abby.

For me, I think the key maybe what Stride said to BS Man when he stopped to talk to her.

Ellen Callana was standing with Frances Coles when she was approached by man but she didn`t like the "look of him" and refused him, getting a smack in the face for her trouble.
Considering that BS Man assaulted Stride, she too, may not have liked "the look" of this man and told him so.

As you note, BS Man matches the description of a man she is seen with earlier in the evening and may have ditched him after she`d creamed a few drinks.

[Jon Guy]

Hi John

But how did she avoid spilling all of the cachous? ?

I imagine she just held them in her hand.

Not only during the initial assault but also as she was running into the Yard?

Did she run into the yard ? What is your source for that ?

Why did Mrs D not hear Stride running into the yard, as she was sat just feet away in the kitchen with the window open?

Was she in the kitchen, John ?

[Harry D]

None of that means that BS was anything more than a disgruntled punter, though.

[John G]

Hi John



I imagine she just held them in her hand.

They were held precariously between thumb and forefinger. They were contained in a flimsy bit of tissue. How does she avoid dropping any during BS man's initial assault?

Did she run into the yard ? What is your source for that ?

I didn't say she did. I was responding to a scenario from another poster.


Was she in the kitchen, John ?

She said she was; something you acknowledged in another post a little while ago.

[Jon Guy]

Hi John

Now bearing in mind that the cachous were contained in a flimsy bit of tissue, precariously held between thumb and forefinger, I have the following questions:.

They were found "lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view"
This was after she was murdered, and the hand relaxed, so the obvious conclusion is that she had been holding onto them in the normal fashion in her hand, and they slipped there upon death.
The packet was not pinched between her finger and thumb as if she was about to money in the cigarette machine, they were "partially hidden from view"

How did Stride manage to hold onto the cachous, without spilling any, whilst BS man attempted to pull her into the street? How does this not infringe Newton's Law of Gravity?.

To answer your question, she held them tightly in her hand.
But, actually she did spill some:

[Coroner] Does the presence of the cachous in the left hand indicate that the murder was committed very suddenly and without any struggle?[Dr Phillips] Some of the cachous were scattered about the yard.

I have further questions:

Why did no one hear Stride being assaulted, or her screams, especially Mrs Mortimer and Mrs D?.

Because, thanks to witness Schwartz we know Stride didn`t scream very loudly.
Anyway, Mrs M was inside her house, and Mrs D was in the front room of the club.

How did BS man persuade Stride to go with him into a pitch black dark, narrow passage, especially after just assaulting her??.

Eh ?
Did he ?

How did such an unsubtle killer, such as BS man, prevent Stride from screaming again after getting her into the passage?

He cut her windpipe ?

Why did Mrs D hear nothing, despite being sat in the kitchen, just feet away from where Stride was murdered, with the window open ?

Was she ?

Why did no-one in the nearby court lodgings hear anything despite, according to the Star report, being awake

Because she didn`t scream very loudly ?

You seem to think that JtR was not a subtle, highly efficient killer, but stumbling, drunken fool, who would attack a victim in front of two witnesses. I therefore have the following questions

We`ve already discussed this, but was BS Man aware he was being watched ?
No. Probably not.

To summarize, we have a killer who manages to lure his victims to the locations where they are murdered:?

I though the general assumption, then and now, was that the victims themselves led the killer to their place of death.

[John G]

Why must it be then when she took them out, Jon ?

Given the facts we have to work with, she was probably holding onto them whilst she was standing alone in the gateway.

I`m not sure about how you concluded she was looking away ?

The cachous were held precariously between thumb and forefinger, and contained within some flimsy tissue. How does she avoid dropping the package, let alone spilling any, whilst being grabbed by BS Man, spun round by BS man, and thrown to the ground by BS man? I would suggest this contradicts Newton's law of gravity.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hello Wyatt. Thanks.

"Lynn, if BSM gave the cachous to Stride, I think he must have done so at some point after she had picked herself up following their initial disagreement."

Very well. But isn't such an offering directly after an assault a bit odd?

Cheers.
LC

Why “odd,” if promising her the cachous was part of his effort to gain her cooperation?

[Jon Guy]

She said she was; something you acknowledged in another post a little while ago.

I don`t think so, as I know she was in the front room on the ground floor.

[lynn cates]

approaches

Hello Batman. Thanks.

"If you want to bend this to mean Swanson didn't accept Schwartz witness testimony . . . "

No, I think he accepted it right enough. So?

Conan Doyle? Ah, yes--the lad who THOUGHT before opening his mouth. Well, you must have a Lastrade approach. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

The cachous were held precariously between thumb and forefinger, and contained within some flimsy tissue. How does she avoid dropping the package, let alone spilling any, whilst being grabbed by BS Man, spun round by BS man, and thrown to the ground by BS man? I would suggest this contradicts Newton's law of gravity.

Because as stated at inquest the hand was relaxing post mortem from a clenched grip.

She held the sweets with a tight grip. That's all.

Again this isn't a bit of paper on the end of a plank that gets knocked and as Abby stated she isn't holding a champaign tower either.

This is living biological person with lots of adaptations to counter gravity. For example, upright spinal bipedal posture.

[Jon Guy]

I don't know. Maybe because Lawende spoke English and was more respectable class? Maybe they couldn't locate Schwartz?

Absolutely, Abby

Where was Schwartz in 1891 or 1895 ?
We do know where Lawende was.

Also, Swanson did say that as Church Passage man was seen with victim closer to her death than Schwartz and BS Man, that Church Passage Man was more likely to be the killer.

[lynn cates]

claims

Hello John.

"The cachous were held precariously between thumb and forefinger, and contained within some flimsy tissue. How does she avoid dropping the package, let alone spilling any, whilst being grabbed by BS Man, spun round by BS man, and thrown to the ground by BS man? I would suggest this contradicts Newton's law of gravity."

Spot on. And to claim that she spilled some denies what the doctors said. And to claim that they levitated upward from palm to thumb/finger is ludicrous.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

new departure

Hello Wyatt. Thanks.

Hmm, you assault someone then give a gift.

Might have known.

Cheers.
LC