The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Batman]

Swanson had to go back to the investigators to check for a handwriting match to the ripper letters based on their memory.

The people living there didn't report there being graffiti there before.

It hasnt been shown other graffiti existed there.

The random chance that eddowes apron would just land next to antisemitic graffiti after 2 incidents involving Jews during the double event plus rioting after Chapman due to leather apron, is so low as to be worth repeating - there are no coincidences.

[Harry D]

I can't look past the spelling 'Juwes'. As far as I know, it's not an accepted spelling in any Jewish language, and it's connection to Freemasonry is a nonsense. On the face of it, that does seem to leave us with a semi-literate who spelt 'Jews' phonetically and used double-negatives. I have little doubt in my mind that it's anti-semitic in nature and implies that Jews won't take responsibility for anything. The alternative doesn't make sense. Why would a Jew dump on his own doorstep (so to speak) and leave a piece of incriminating evidence next to a message designed to deflect attention away from the Jews?

So yes, I'm of the opinion that it was written by a "gentile", but I'm not yet convinced it was the murderer's hand that chalked it.

[GUT]

I can't look past the spelling 'Juwes'. As far as I know, it's not an accepted spelling in any Jewish language, and it's connection to Freemasonry is a nonsense. On the face of it, that does seem to leave us with a semi-literate who spelt 'Jews' phonetically and used double-negatives. I have little doubt in my mind that it's anti-semitic in nature and implies that Jews won't take responsibility for anything. The alternative doesn't make sense. Why would a Jew dump on his own doorstep (so to speak) and leave a piece of incriminating evidence next to a message designed to deflect attention away from the Jews?

So yes, I'm of the opinion that it was written by a "gentile", but I'm not yet convinced it was the murderer's hand that chalked it.

The only problem with that, not to say it defeats the idea, is a semi-literate, who writes in a good schoolboy hand.

[Harry D]

The only problem with that, not to say it defeats the idea, is a semi-literate, who writes in a good schoolboy hand.

Schoolboy being the operative word, perhaps?

[GUT]

Schoolboy being the operative word, perhaps?

I had considered that aspect, however find it hard to accept that someone with a good schoolboy hand wouldn't be able to spell "Jews", it may explain the grammatical issues but that simple word does leave me puzzled.

[Harry D]

I had considered that aspect, however find it hard to accept that someone with a good schoolboy hand wouldn't be able to spell "Jews", it may explain the grammatical issues but that simple word does leave me puzzled.

I think the semi-literacy, the 'schoolboy' hand, and height of the graffiti points towards it being the work of a local scallywag. Perhaps he heard his dad bemoaning the 'Juwes' in the area who ripped him off in Goulston St (a variation of Fido's theory).

I think it was written earlier in the evening, PC Long just missed it because it was fairly small, low-down and poorly lit. It wasn't until he bent down and picked up the bloody apron that his attention was brought to it.

[moonbegger]

It was only graffiti .. without the apron being noticed , it probably would not have even registered with Long .. plus , the graffiti was not actually that abnormally low regarding general population height .

moonbegger

[GUT]

I think the semi-literacy, the 'schoolboy' hand, and height of the graffiti points towards it being the work of a local scallywag. Perhaps he heard his dad bemoaning the 'Juwes' in the area who ripped him off in Goulston St (a variation of Fido's theory).

I think it was written earlier in the evening, PC Long just missed it because it was fairly small, low-down and poorly lit. It wasn't until he bent down and picked up the bloody apron that his attention was brought to it.

But it's not that low, if you try it yourself. t was sad to be at a height that an upper arm/shoulder would rub aganst it.

Write with chalk on a brick wall, unless you stretch up it will fall in that general area.

[Dane_F]

It was only graffiti .. without the apron being noticed , it probably would not have even registered with Long .. plus , the graffiti was not actually that abnormally low regarding general population height .

moonbegger

That's certainly the rub isn't it? Because the apron WAS found with it.

The significance of the graffiti is far less to me than the actual apron being found there. Jack could have chosen to toss the apron anywhere sooner or burned it or even kept it (all safer options), instead he tosses it in this doorway with this message.

[GUT]

That's certainly the rub isn't it? Because the apron WAS found with it.

The significance of the graffiti is far less to me than the actual apron being found there. Jack could have chosen to toss the apron anywhere sooner or burned it or even kept it (all safer options), instead he tosses it in this doorway with this message.

But if he hadn't seen the message????

[Michael W Richards]

That's certainly the rub isn't it? Because the apron WAS found with it.

The significance of the graffiti is far less to me than the actual apron being found there. Jack could have chosen to toss the apron anywhere sooner or burned it or even kept it (all safer options), instead he tosses it in this doorway with this message.

I think there is one factoid that assists in the assignation of both the apron and the writing to the killer in Mitre Square(note I did not say Jack), and that is the statement made by Constable Long, 254A of the Met. If you accept his vehement response to his cross examination that the apron section, at least, was "NOT THERE" at approximately 2:20, you must conclude that it was placed there around half an hour to an hour after the actual murder took place. That would indicate in a very practical manner that the killer did not drop it casually on his way directly home from the killing. Which makes its placement, by logical default, deliberate.

When you look at that bit of data one cannot help wonder if a deliberate placement of the apron and some previously undiscovered writing were connected to the same person, since it would seem that the message and the cloth were both there to serve some purpose.

Taking that one step further, and considering that it was the entrance to some dwellings that were occupied almost completely by Immigrant Jews, the fact that the GSG is essentially about Juwes/Jewes/Juewes and Blame, that might be a significant clue as to a motive for the cloth placement.

Ill just add that the message and motive need not be related to Kate Eddowes murder.

Cheers

[Dane_F]

But if he hadn't seen the message????

To get to that point we'd have to first cross the logical gaps of why he didn't toss it into the first doorway he could, or leave it at his den, procceed to decide to bring it back out, and then why he picked a random doorway.

I'd rather go with the much simpler solution of he knew of/wrote the GSG and marked it.

[Dane_F]

I think there is one factoid that assists in the assignation of both the apron and the writing to the killer in Mitre Square(note I did not say Jack), and that is the statement made by Constable Long, 254A of the Met. If you accept his vehement response to his cross examination that the apron section, at least, was "NOT THERE" at approximately 2:20, you must conclude that it was placed there around half an hour to an hour after the actual murder took place. That would indicate in a very practical manner that the killer did not drop it casually on his way directly home from the killing. Which makes its placement, by logical default, deliberate.

When you look at that bit of data one cannot help wonder if a deliberate placement of the apron and some previously undiscovered writing were connected to the same person, since it would seem that the message and the cloth were both there to serve some purpose.

Taking that one step further, and considering that it was the entrance to some dwellings that were occupied almost completely by Immigrant Jews, the fact that the GSG is essentially about Juwes/Jewes/Juewes and Blame, that might be a significant clue as to a motive for the cloth placement.

Ill just add that the message and motive need not be related to Kate Eddowes murder.

Cheers

All fair assessments. I don't pretend to know the meaning of the GSG. I DO think at the time the meaning was better understood and probably did involve blaming the Jews in some way.

But as you said - the bigger piece, to me, is the apparent deliberate placement of the apron. To believe the apron just happen to be tossed in that doorway is to believe in far too many coincidences IMO.

[Harry D]

But as you said - the bigger piece, to me, is the apparent deliberate placement of the apron. To believe the apron just happen to be tossed in that doorway is to believe in far too many coincidences IMO.

Why? The stairwell was the perfect place for a killer to stop and clean himself up. Better than walking the streets with blood/faeces caked hands.

Another point worth considering is whether someone could've written in 'good, round schoolboy hand' under such poor lighting conditions. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the graffito was written earlier in the day and therefore not by the killer.

[J6123]

I agree with that Harry. The killer ducks into the doorway to clean his hands, his face, his weapon, or to swap the organs over, or whatever, and he just discards the apron and moves on. There just happens to be some antisemitic graffiti written in the doorway, which must have been not that uncommon in that area. I don't think it's unreasonable to see it as a coincidence.