The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[J6123]

What does everyone think to this scenario....

The killer was a Jew. He did not write the graffiti, but he saw it, and he decided to toss the apron next to it as nothing more than a "**** you" statement to the anti-semitic writer. Or he just left it there to give the police something to think about. Or he actually wrote it. Maybe he was a gentile. I wish I hadn't written this.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Abby's observations countering the notion of an "Astrakhan alibi" are spot on, and to be honest, it is rather distressing to see "Isaacstrakhan" surface on an even less appropriate thread than usual.

You invited yourself. Then you complain about the subject you invited yourself into.
Here's a tip - put me on "ignore", on second thoughts, you wouldn't be able to sleep

[Abby Normal]

Well, Ben claimed it was impossible for him to be cleared, but in reality it was not impossible.
Abberline believed Isaacs was Astrachan, which is why he conducted very searching enquiries about his movements on the night of Nov 8th.

If Abberline's belief was correct, the only person I can think of who could give Astrachan the all important alibi would be his landlady.

Certainly Astrachan had been with Kelly for about 45 minutes, but as Hutchinson left about 3 o'clock, Astrachan could have left minutes later and still arrived back in Paternoster Row a minute or after that. He could have been home by 3:10 am, possibly confirmed by Mrs Cusins.

If the police were guided by the times given of the cry of 'murder', roughly between 3:30 - 4:00 am, then Astrachan/Isaacs was back home at that time.

Abberline has nothing to connect Astrachan to the murder.
If Mrs Cusins insists her tenant was in his room just after 3 o'clock, ie; prior to the assumed time of the murder, Abberline cannot charge him.

Congrats Wicky
Another world class logistical gymnastics-this ones a triple flip with full twist!!!

First flip:

Abberline believed Isaacs was Astrachan

He did??? where is the evidence for this?


Second flip:

If Abberline's belief was correct, the only person I can think of who could give Astrachan the all important alibi would be his landlady

You mean the EAR witness? Yeah that's rock solid.


Full twist:

Certainly Astrachan had been with Kelly for about 45 minutes, but as Hutchinson left about 3 o'clock, Astrachan could have left minutes later and still arrived back in Paternoster Row a minute or after that. He could have been home by 3:10 am, possibly confirmed by Mrs Cusins.

45 minutes is more than enough time to kill and mutilate someone, but even then you would need the unliklihood of Aman just happening to leave just after hutch does.


Third flip:

If the police were guided by the times given of the cry of 'murder', roughly between 3:30 - 4:00 am, then Astrachan/Isaacs was back home at that time

they had several things to go on for POSSIBLE timing of the murder, not the least were the Drs TOD. You know of course the police are not going to establish a set in stone TOD based on heard cries.

...Aaaand Nails the landing:

Abberline has nothing to connect Astrachan to the murder

He dosent? Aman was the last person seen with the victim entering her room. This from a stellar witness.
I think that would be juuust a little bitty connection there? Dontcha Thinky Wicky?

; )

[Wickerman]

Congrats Wicky
Another world class logistical gymnastics-this ones a triple flip with full twist!!!

First flip:


He did??? where is the evidence for this?

Perhaps you need to catch up on the press accounts.

Second flip:



You mean the EAR witness? Yeah that's rock solid.

Anything 'rock solid' about Hutchinson lying?
Go ahead, make me laugh...

Full twist:



45 minutes is more than enough time to kill and mutilate someone, but even then you would need the unliklihood of Aman just happening to leave just after hutch does.

Of course it is, but the 45 minutes begins with the first cry of murder, not 2:15 am.
Put a little more thought into it Abby.

Third flip:



they had several things to go on for POSSIBLE timing of the murder, not the least were the Drs TOD. You know of course the police are not going to establish a set in stone TOD based on heard cries.

If you had read previous posts, you would have known the answer to that already.

...Aaaand Nails the landing:



He dosent? Aman was the last person seen with the victim entering her room. This from a stellar witness.
I think that would be juuust a little bitty connection there? Dontcha Thinky Wicky?

; )

No.
Not unless the police can establish the time of death.
Don't take up Law Abby

[Abby Normal]

Perhaps you need to catch up on the press accounts.




Anything 'rock solid' about Hutchinson lying?
Go ahead, make me laugh...




Of course it is, but the 45 minutes begins with the first cry of murder, not 2:15 am.
Put a little more thought into it Abby.




If you had read previous posts, you would have known the answer to that already.



No.
Not unless the police can establish the time of death.
Don't take up Law Abby

.....and he finishes the routine with his patented move-the Max Obfuscate!

Well done Wicky!!!clap clap.

funny you mentioned law.

Whats the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?



Answer: Ones a bottom dwelling mud sucker and the others a fish.



Whats the difference between a Con Man and a lawyer?




Answer: a law degree


OK sorry-enough nonsense-back on topic.

[Batman]

If we keep extending the time she is out and working so much you could end up with a scenario confirming Mrs. Maxwell's early morning meeting with MJK.

[andy1867]

I voted No..cos I have honestly never seen the point of it.........

[John Wheat]

I voted No..cos I have honestly never seen the point of it.........

Yes I agree the GSG is a massive red herring. Why would Jack even bother?

[Abby Normal]

Yes I agree the GSG is a massive red herring. Why would Jack even bother?

why bother with killing and mutilating either?

he got off on it, as he probably did with the GSG.

No, the caschous is a major red herring. The GSG is a clue.

[The Cenci]

If the Lusk letter is valid (big 'if' admittedly) he chose not to go by the JTR moniker so why advertise himself further here.

(So why send the letter, I suppose)

Abby, I'd say the mutilations were a private thing for him, ridding himself of an urge, rather than a public advertisement.

[andy1867]

why bother with killing and mutilating either?

he got off on it, as he probably did with the GSG.

No, the caschous is a major red herring. The GSG is a clue.

If he got off on it though Abby...why is it so vague....
Unless of course he knew it would mean something to somebody I suppose...

[Abby Normal]

If he got off on it though Abby...why is it so vague....
Unless of course he knew it would mean something to somebody I suppose...

your last sentence-BINGO!!

[Abby Normal]

If the Lusk letter is valid (big 'if' admittedly) he chose not to go by the JTR moniker so why advertise himself further here.

(So why send the letter, I suppose)

Abby, I'd say the mutilations were a private thing for him, ridding himself of an urge, rather than a public advertisement.

Yes, I agree.

However, the adrenaline rush (the "high" or rush many experts allude to when describing serial killer behavior) that he probably felt before, during and after a kill probably played a role in his fantasy and actions-including the excitement of writing the GSG.

[andy1867]

your last sentence-BINGO!!

Well there you go....I'm comin' on a treat...hoping to name Jack by the end of the week
Seriously though...Does that lead to the conclusion that it was the person that ordered its wiping away that understood it?
and that it was more than simply an incitement to inflame the Jewish community?

[The Cenci]

Thanks Abby,

For me that's the most frustrating element of the whole case. What did he do for the hour after Mitre Square? Looking for a third victim? At home cleaning himself up? Sleeping?

If there's an escalation in the murders, which is more than possible given Millers Court, was he becoming more reckless? More proud of his work and the terror that came with it?

Peter Sutcliffe went the other way. He turned the whole thing off in his mind until the urge came again. He didn't want to take chances or send messages (although I heard only this week that he wrote a letter calling himself 'the street cleaner').

Was the GSG just a sign of escalation. That makes a bit more sense but I'm still sceptical.