The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Monty]

Hello Neil.

"If Halse felt a crime had or was about to take place, or he felt he could apprehend the perp, then he had every right to venture into Mets territory."

As I say, unless he were looking for something, how else could his presence be explained?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Something or someone. You must remember Marriott and Outram also fanned out from Mitre Square, we don't know in which direction, in a hunt for clues or the murderer.

As CID, a pro active force, their actions are logical and correct in my opinion.

Monty

[Abby Normal]

Abby - I cannot let such HUGE and baseless assumptions pass by without comment. I assume you are being whimsical or humourous?

Because he had to take the organs and knife back to drop off at his place and grab a piece of chalk.

Absolutely no evidence for this.

if he needed to wipe his hands he would have just done it at the crime scene on her clothes-no need to take the time and cut off a piece.

Not if he heard someone approaching or felt it was time to move on.

He had been seen well by several jews that night(probably the first time he knew he had) and wanted to blame them(angry for being spotted/interupted), blame jews in general and obsfucate his identity.

Totally without foundation. We do not know for certain Lawende saw "Jack" or Eddowes.

the rest of the allegation is pure supposition as we do not know the GSG was written by "Jack" or even known to him.

My proffered solution (only one of many possibles, I'll agree) has at least the benefit of simplicity.

Phil
The cops did not miss it the first time around-neither was there yet.
and they made the connection at the time between the two-I'll take there word on this one.

Hi Phil
I assume you are being whimsical or humourous?

You assume wrong

Absolutely no evidence for this..

Yes there is-its called circumstantial.

Not if he heard someone approaching or felt it was time to move on.

In which case he would not take longer to cut a piece of apron either.

Totally without foundation. We do not know for certain Lawende saw "Jack" or Eddowes.

The cops did. i will go with them on this one also.

My proffered solution (only one of many possibles, I'll agree) has at least the benefit of simplicity.

I have found that the most likely solution is one that is somewhere between the simplest and the most complex.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby. Perhaps, but IF there was one killer throughout, how did he transport the organs in those other cases?

Cheers.
LC

Same as he did here-in his pocket.

[lynn cates]

all clear

Hello Neil. Yes, or someone. Wish we knew whom were the 2 (or was it 3?) lads he chatted up near there but cleared.

I wonder how many times one was cleared prematurely?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Abby. Ah, I thought you were claiming that the apron was used for that purpose. Sorry to misunderstand.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Hi Phil
I assume you are being whimsical or humourous?

You assume wrong.

Oh dear.

I cannot agree with you at all. I see no logic or sense in any of your contentions. I regret we'll have to disagree.

Phil

[PhiltheBear]

Because he had to take the organs and knife back to drop off at his place and grab a piece of chalk.
Absolutely no evidence for this.
Yes there is-its called circumstantial.

No - it's called hypothesis. It's not evidence - it's opinion with no basis.

if he needed to wipe his hands he would have just done it at the crime scene on her clothes-no need to take the time and cut off a piece.
Not if he heard someone approaching or felt it was time to move on.
In which case he would not take longer to cut a piece of apron either.

Or - he may have cut it beforehand in readiness either for wiping or carrying or simply to move it out of the way

He had been seen well by several jews that night(probably the first time he knew he had) and wanted to blame them(angry for being spotted/interupted), blame jews in general and obsfucate his identity.
Totally without foundation. We do not know for certain Lawende saw "Jack" or Eddowes.
The cops did. i will go with them on this one also.

Lawende's own testimony was that he saw a woman from the back in black clothing at around 1 o'clock in the morning. (No details of available light were given). He then 'thought' the clothes of the deceased were the same. So - 1. Although likely, we don't know if this was the victim. 2. We don't know, either, that the man was the killer. 3. We have absolutely no idea whatsoever whether the man recognised Lawende as a Jew - or either of his companions - who couldn't remember anything anyway.

the rest of the allegation is pure supposition as we do not know the GSG was written by "Jack" or even known to him.

Precisely

The assumptions have no basis whatsoever. There again - there's a lot of that about.

[The Cenci]

Hello. I'm new here so go easy.

I don't see how it could be the murderer. The most obvious point is the opportunity to speak his mind in Millers Court but chose not to take it. I also think it might be odd to write on a wall when not one but two police forces were out looking for him. I'm no expert but I'd guess two murders in one night might be both physically and mentally exhausting.

That said, he could have been 'prolonging the high' as he clearly found killing to be an exhilarating pastime.

Anyway, that's my view. A no here.

Hello again.

[Harry D]

The argument is that the GSG was a direct response to being spotted by a Jew (Schwartz) at the time of the Stride murder. I don't think that should be completely thrown out.

[Errata]

The assumptions have no basis whatsoever. There again - there's a lot of that about.

"Lawende's own testimony was that he saw a woman from the back in black clothing at around 1 o'clock in the morning. (No details of available light were given). He then 'thought' the clothes of the deceased were the same. So - 1. Although likely, we don't know if this was the victim. 2. We don't know, either, that the man was the killer. 3. We have absolutely no idea whatsoever whether the man recognised Lawende as a Jew - or either of his companions - who couldn't remember anything anyway."

Eddowes was not wearing black clothing. Even thought dark green, the skirt would not read a black in poor light. It reads brown. Well known theater complication. It's why it has only recently become an appropriate color for evening gowns, and that is because light wavelengths have changed in the past ten years from yellow to white. The useless crap you learn dressing sets...

Just throwing that out there.

Also, how drunk and/or completely oblivious to cultural norms do you have to be to go have sex in the backyard of both a church and a synagogue? It's one of those "Go straight to hell. Do not pass Go" kinda things right?

[Penhalion]

I wonder how easy it would have been to tell that someone was Jewish in that environment- poorly lit streets and a quick glance. Many of the indicators that tell us someone is a conservative Jew would have been common/unremarkable back then. For example, many men wore beards, most men wore hats, and most men wore dark jackets and trousers. Detecting a Semitic cast to the facial features would have taken fairly good light and a least a few seconds to look. If the person was speaking, you might have been able to hear a Yiddish accent but if you only heard a couple of words, could you tell it from Low German (almost identical to Yiddish) or even Polish?

I don't think the GSG had anything to do with JtR other than being coincidentally near where he threw the piece of apron. If I recall correctly, it actually wasn't very big (only covered one or two bricks and slightly larger than normal handwriting) so both JtR and the police might have missed it until the police were seriously looking in all the dark corners.

[Abby Normal]

The argument is that the GSG was a direct response to being spotted by a Jew (Schwartz) at the time of the Stride murder. I don't think that should be completely thrown out.

and Diemshitz, and Lawende and company.

He was probably pretty pissed off that night with all those meddlesome jews getting in his way. The GSG was his way at getting back at them, and deflecting suspicion.

[Batman]

It was freshly done

If you read Swanson's report on the matter there is every reason to believe that after questioning people who lived there and walked the passage on a day to day basis, many times, that they had no knowledge of the graffiti being there and if it was there they would have wiped it off themselves.

[Wickerman]

How many of the residents could read English?

[John G]

How many of the residents could read English?

But isn't this largely incidental? Surely if they'd noticed the graffiti they would have mentioned it, irrespective of whether they understood its meaning.