Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post

    Hi Michael

    Thanks...yes that was what I thought I recalled from somewhere or other...but this morning I can't seem to trace an evidential reference to it in my trusty textbooks, including the Sourcebook, which has never let me down...can anyone point me in the right direction please?

    Cheers

    Dave
    Hi Dave,

    St James Gazette, Oct 12th...relating the events during the last day of the Inquest on Oct 11th..."Detective Halse, of the City police, deposed to being sent to Gouldston street to make inquiries about the writing on the wall. Directions were given for photographing the writing, but before it could be done the Metropolitan Police, thinking, as it was Sunday morning, the words might cause a riot of seen by the Jews, or an outbreak against the Jews, had the writing washed out. Inquiries were made at every tenement in the house, but no information could be gathered as to anyone having arrived home late. The witness suggested that only the top line of the writing should be rubbed off. The witness protested about its being erased until Major Smith had seen it; but of course it was on metropolitan ground, and the Metropolitan Police suggested that likelihood of a riot. The writing was in a good round hand, upon the black dado of the passage wall, and appeared to have been recently written. The capital letters were about three quarters of an inch in height, the others being in proportion. He took the words down as: "The Juews (sic) are not the men that will be blamed for nothing."

    Cheers
    Michael Richards

    Comment


    • Ah - found it in the Daily News 12th October account of the inquest - in which Halse says they were under an inch - this doesn't appear to be in the accounts quoted in the Sourcebook...query resolved...thanks all!

      Dave

      (Edit PS - Mine crossed with yours Michael - Many thanks indeed!)
      Last edited by Cogidubnus; 07-12-2019, 01:13 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

        Halse stated the size...the capital letters were approx. 3/4" in size, and the lowercase letters appropriately smaller...in his note book.
        Is it Halse who also says a 'fine schoolboy's round hand' (or something to that affect)?

        PC Long never really describes the writing for the inquest, the conversation digresses into the placement of the word "not," and kind of stalls there.

        Do you think it is safe to assume that Halse is probably more accurate in his description (both visually and sentence structure wise) because he copies it down when he first encounters it?

        I am not sure but there seems to be some suggestion that PC Long doesn't write down the missive while he is standing in front of it, only to record it from memory some time later. Do you know if that is true?

        Comment


        • Hi All,

          DC Halse—

          "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing"

          Inspector McWilliam [City Police] report, October 27th 1888—

          "The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

          Inspector Arnold, 6th November report—

          'The Juewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing'

          Chief Inspector Donald Swanson—

          "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"

          Sir Charles Warren—

          "The Juwes are The men that Will not be Blamed for nothing"

          DC Halse said at Eddowes' inquest, "There were about three lines of writing".

          Warren wrote his version on five lines, so that's seven spelling/grammar/capitalization/lineage variations on the GSG.

          Regards,

          Simon
          Last edited by Simon Wood; 07-12-2019, 03:33 PM.
          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by APerno View Post

            Is it Halse who also says a 'fine schoolboy's round hand' (or something to that affect)?

            PC Long never really describes the writing for the inquest, the conversation digresses into the placement of the word "not," and kind of stalls there.

            Do you think it is safe to assume that Halse is probably more accurate in his description (both visually and sentence structure wise) because he copies it down when he first encounters it?

            I am not sure but there seems to be some suggestion that PC Long doesn't write down the missive while he is standing in front of it, only to record it from memory some time later. Do you know if that is true?
            To answer,

            Line 1, yes. Line 2, agreed. Line 3, yes. Line 4, that's my impression as well. Cheers.
            Michael Richards

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
              Hi All,

              DC Halse—

              "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing"

              Inspector McWilliam [City Police] report, October 27th 1888—

              "The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

              Inspector Arnold, 6th November report—

              'The Juewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing'

              Chief Inspector Donald Swanson—

              "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"

              Sir Charles Warren—

              "The Juwes are The men that Will not be Blamed for nothing"

              DC Halse said at Eddowes' inquest, "There were about three lines of writing".

              Warren wrote his version on five lines, so that's seven spelling/grammar/capitalization/lineage variations on the GSG.

              Regards,

              Simon
              Long said "The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing", so that's another variation isn't it Simon? The word Jews without the second 'e"?
              Michael Richards

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                I believe the risk he took in cutting that apron section reveals it was to be used for some important reason, he could have just wiped his hands on his own hanky or Kate, and that the timing of its appearance suggests that the killer came to that spot almost an hour after the murder.

                Maybe he wanted to keep smelling it! even to masturbate with it!



                The Baron

                Comment


                • For what it's worth, PC long was asked if he made a note of the graffiti at the time.

                  - Did you make an entry of the words at the time?
                  - Yes, in my pocket-book.

                  Regards, Jon S.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                    Hi All,

                    DC Halse—

                    "The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing"

                    Inspector McWilliam [City Police] report, October 27th 1888—

                    "The Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

                    Inspector Arnold, 6th November report—

                    'The Juewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing'

                    Chief Inspector Donald Swanson—

                    "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"

                    Sir Charles Warren—

                    "The Juwes are The men that Will not be Blamed for nothing"

                    DC Halse said at Eddowes' inquest, "There were about three lines of writing".

                    Warren wrote his version on five lines, so that's seven spelling/grammar/capitalization/lineage variations on the GSG.

                    Regards,

                    Simon
                    Hi Simon.
                    You don't have Foster's version.
                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • I expect that this comment will be lost on the board. That or mark the final comment of the page and tossed aside.
                      random thought on looping cursive,
                      And how some write their J's to look like I's.

                      Any possibility that he didn't write "Juwes" but instead cursively wrote "Iwmec"?

                      As in,

                      The international working men's education club are not the men to blame for nothing.

                      ​​​
                      there,s nothing new, only the unexplored

                      Comment


                      • You're not the first to suggest that, Robert, so you're in distinguished company.

                        For me, IWMEC doesn't look much like Juwes, even if I squint through my astigmatic eyes. I say "IWMEC" because it's an acronym, and would likely have been in capitals anyway.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Robert St Devil View Post
                          I expect that this comment will be lost on the board. That or mark the final comment of the page and tossed aside.
                          random thought on looping cursive,
                          And how some write their J's to look like I's.

                          Any possibility that he didn't write "Juwes" but instead cursively wrote "Iwmec"?

                          As in,

                          The international working men's education club are not the men to blame for nothing.

                          ​​​
                          Tom Wescott suggested that a while back, not sure if he also put it into any published works of his as well. I also dont think that its probable, any more that the "Juives" idea was. I think taking the find as something that was placed, not just discarded, one has to consider the apron section and the writing as something to be taken together to make whatever message he intended. The apron section needs no explanation, it show clearly that the Mitre Square killer was there. The message, if in concert with the apron, despite being vague, might be the only communication from a killer of one of the Canonicals. Thats enough reason to have taken an image I think, and I would have been delighted to have a chance to see that and the Lusk letter together to compare.



                          Michael Richards

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            You're not the first to suggest that, Robert, so you're in distinguished company.

                            For me, IWMEC doesn't look much like Juwes, even if I squint through my astigmatic eyes. I say "IWMEC" because it's an acronym, and would likely have been in capitals anyway.
                            Thanks Gareth. Something you posted about that Wentworth dwelling doorway a few pages back got me thinking about how it would have been a likely scene for a Jack the Ripper murder. Granted, the entire East End was a possibility, for his crimes, but it got me wondering if he was trying to directly tie his murder to the Wentworth. As in, maybe he wanted his victim's murder to be discovered on Goulston, to incite the neighborhood as the multitude gathered around the doorway of this particular Jewish tenement early that morning. I get that he was able to evade the authorities, but that's not to say that everything went as planned (if there was a plan in the first place). So, maybe he had to settle on Mitre Square but still threw shade on Goulston by placing a token from Catherine's murder at the Wentworth.

                            Hi Michael.
                            there,s nothing new, only the unexplored

                            Comment


                            • i still say its jutes.
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                i still say its jutes.
                                What is a Jute?
                                https://youtu.be/Hu8tX2BAD1k
                                Regards, Jon S.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X