The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Darryl Kenyon]

If Jack was, say the butchers row suspect and he used that address as a bolt hole, [ worked there and knowing it would be empty at night], What better place to dispose of body parts than a Butchers or slaughterhouse?.
He could have been forced in that direction with the presence of police and thought better of getting rid of the incriminating evidence. In his panic then wiped his hands on the cloth and put it back in his pocket, [ he could hardly leave it at the bolt hole], and chucked it into the doorway when he was fleeing/passing having hurriedly made his getaway. All this could have been done in the time frame since Butchers row was not too far away.
Regards Darryl

[Wickerman]

Jon's point was, as he said, straightforward. Whether it was a piece of calico apron or not, he'd found a cloth smeared in faeces and blood, some of it still wet. Enough in itself to raise suspicion, in the heart of a part of London beset with bloody murders on the streets, for which reason Long had been drafted in to police said streets.

Thankyou, well put.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Sorry, I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Eddowes had a chemise made from calico.

Are you certain about the apron?

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon.

Certain about what, the apron being made of calico, or the cloth being called "apron" in anachronism?

On initial discovery at the mortuary the remaining piece was still around her neck, it was described as - "1 Large White Handkerchief".
The last item on the List of Possessions is the GS piece brought by Phillips - "1 Piece of old White Apron".

I seem to recall we went over the sequence of events a number of years ago.
PC Long took the rag to Commercial St., the inspector called Phillips to come and get it, and Phillips took it to the mortuary in Golden Lane, where it was added to the list of possessions, the last item.

[Abby Normal]

That's presupposing he wrote the graffito. The most obvious objective reason is that he'd dirtied his hand(s) with excrement - those faeces didn't smear themselves on Eddowes' extruded viscera.



Less than five seconds? However long it took, it would have been the same for any option, whether organ-carrying, hand-wiping or graffiti-signing.



Not if he feared, or knew, that there was a policeman or two approaching. And it takes time to get that stuff off your skin, especially if you've smeared it around with your hand.

No matter how you slice it, it would have been quicker to wipe his dirty hands off on the clothes he had available right there on her body rather than cut a piece of apron off to use later. And besides he would have realized right away he got his hands covered in crap and the natural reaction would be to get it off right away quickly then and there on her clothes. No need to hesitate and cut a piece of apron for later.

no he cut that apron for use later in the manner that he did. It’s the only thing that makes any sense.

or perhaps he used it to carry the organ home, and when there got the idea to use it as he did.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

Are you certain the apron was made of calico?

The List of Possessions should really have read, "2 Pieces of old White Apron." One piece around her neck, the second brought by Doctor Phillips, who hadn't shown up at the mortuary by 5.20 pm.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

No matter how you slice it, it would have been quicker to wipe his dirty hands off on the clothes he had available right there on her body

Not with the noise of Harvey's and/or Watkins' boots clomping on the cobblestones. Besides, I think he did try to get rid of it by wiping his hand(s) on Eddowes' extruded viscera, which would explain why fæcal matter were smeared over them. This is the only instance where this happened in the Ripper series, and it is the only instance where a piece of the victim's clothing was cut and taken... to be found a few hundred yards away, with blood and fæcal matter wiped on it.

I think he decided to get out of there quick, put a bit of distance between himself and the crime-scene, and scrub up at leisure.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Are you certain the apron was made of calico?

Calico was the common material for the working class apron.
It was still used for the butcher's apron when I went through the apprenticeship all those years ago.

The List of Possessions should really have read, "2 Pieces of old White Apron." One piece around her neck, the second brought by Doctor Phillips, who hadn't shown up at the mortuary by 5.20 pm.

Regards,

Simon

Her list of possessions were published in the press, interestingly the piece around her neck was correctly identified by the Times reporter:

"She wore a pair of men's laced-boots; and a piece of old white coarse apron and a piece of riband were tied loosely around the neck....."

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/times/18881001.html

[Joshua Rogan]

Her list of possessions were published in the press, interestingly the piece around her neck was correctly identified by the Times reporter:

"She wore a pair of men's laced-boots; and a piece of old white coarse apron and a piece of riband were tied loosely around the neck....."

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/times/18881001.html

Jon,
do you think the Times reporter saw Kate's body before it was stripped, or were they assuming the apron piece in the pile of her belongings would have been worn around her neck?

[Sam Flynn]

do you think the Times reporter saw Kate's body before it was stripped, or were they assuming the apron piece in the pile of her belongings would have been worn around her neck?

I think the article was reporting what the police had found , as the relevant section starts with "The woman is described as being about 40 years of age and 5ft. in height...", and goes on to say "There were also found upon her a piece of string, a common white handkerchief with a red border, a match box..."

Looks like the journalist saw a copy of a police report/inventory, or had one read out to him by an officer.

[Michael W Richards]

Whoever killed Kate he, for the first time, severed her colon. He released feces into the mix this time. If he had brought something to take an organ away with him, he likely would have been forced to use it then, or use it then and still use it again to carry the biological materials. I think that's why we see only a little staining on the apron, the bulk of the mess was on hanky down a drain somewhere, or tossed in a small cooking/warming fire on the street.

He could have shucked the apron section the same way...so...why didn't he? Why, on the ONLY Canonical night where Jewish witnesses figure as the most prominent in 2 murder investigations, does this piece of cloth end up right outside a residence of almost entirely Jewish people, below a chalk message about Jews and Blame? Hmm

[Joshua Rogan]

Whoever killed Kate he, for the first time, severed her colon.

Not true. Whoever killed Annie cut through her colon too.

[Sam Flynn]

Why, on the ONLY Canonical night where Jewish witnesses figure as the most prominent in 2 murder investigations, does this piece of cloth end up right outside a residence of almost entirely Jewish people, below a chalk message about Jews and Blame?

Stride might not have been a Ripper murder (very probably wasn't, in my view), so we need to be a bit cautious with her case. As to the Eddowes murder, there's no telling whether the Ripper registered Lawende et al's ethnicity, assuming the killer was the man they saw at Church Passage. Furthermore, the area between Mitre Square and the heart of Spitalfields was only one among many parts of the East End that had a large Jewish population, so we need to be cautious there, too.

If we're spooked by coincidences, how many back yards in the whole of London - never mind Spitalfields - had a tap with a leather apron hanging on it? Yet Annie Chapman managed to get murdered in just such a yard at the height of the "Leather Apron" scare.

[Sam Flynn]

Not true. Whoever killed Annie cut through her colon too.

Indeed so, although strictly speaking it wasn't cut through or removed, and there were no fæces reported in her case. Which is hardly surprising, given how meagre her diet must have been.

It's safe to say that Eddowes was the only case in which the colon had been cut out, and fæces had been smeared over her viscera.

[FISHY1118]

Hi Sam ,id be interested in why you think stride wasn't a ripper victim.

[Abby Normal]

Not with the noise of Harvey's and/or Watkins' boots clomping on the cobblestones. Besides, I think he did try to get rid of it by wiping his hand(s) on Eddowes' extruded viscera, which would explain why fæcal matter were smeared over them. This is the only instance where this happened in the Ripper series, and it is the only instance where a piece of the victim's clothing was cut and taken... to be found a few hundred yards away, with blood and fæcal matter wiped on it.

I think he decided to get out of there quick, put a bit of distance between himself and the crime-scene, and scrub up at leisure.

Hi sam
making me think hard about this. Here’s another possible similar scenario. Let me know what you think.

after the rippers aborted attack on stride, he is seen by the anon church street sighting wiping his hands, trying to hide his face etc. ( this sighting was roughly in between the two victims) and has to ditch that rag he originally brought. After eddowes he now has no cloth to wrap the organs in so has to use her cut apron. Back at his abode after cleaning up a bit he is stewing about the dam Jews that almost thwarted him he decides on the gsg signed by the rag. I like it. It explains everything and fits the nights evidence and narrative.