The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Monty
Thanks! But couldn't a photo of it have been used at trial as a comparison to the suspects handwriting?

If they'd managed to bring a suspect to trial, they would have had far stronger evidence than the GSG available. (See also previous comments about the difficulties with vertical handwriting.)

[Simon Wood]

Hi Herlock,

Catherine Eddowes Inquest—

DC Halse: "At twenty minutes past two o'clock I passed over the spot where the piece of apron was found, but did not notice anything then."

PC Long: "I passed [the spot where the piece of apron was found] about twenty minutes past two o'clock."

Things don't get much more approximate than this.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Catherine Eddowes Inquest—

DC Halse: "At twenty minutes past two o'clock I passed over the spot where the piece of apron was found, but did not notice anything then."

PC Long: "I passed [the spot where the piece of apron was found] about twenty minutes past two o'clock."

Let's say Halse was there at exactly 2:20 (although that's questionable in itself) and Long's "about twenty minutes past two" could have meant anything between 2:17 and 2:23 (say), and we already have quite a margin, especially if Long was moving at beat-pace and Halse was moving more briskly. It wouldn't have taken the latter much time to pass the Wentworth Dwellings' doorway and out of Long's orbit.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

I sense you're making this up as you go along.

Regards,

Simon

[Trevor Marriott]

To clarify, the apron was soaked at the corner with blood, as well as dotted with the material.

Enough for PC Long to be concerned, and to report it.

Monty

But his statement is not corroborated by anyone else. No one mentions a corner being soaked with blood. There is mention of a corner being wet (Pc Longs signed inquest testimony)

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

I would disagree with that Monty, although Im sure you know the letter of the law better than I do. It seems to me that until such time as the author of the message was identified and a time for its appearance could be established....it remains possibly connected to the physical evidence relating to a murder based on their discovery time and proximity to one another alone. Any message content is therefore a potential clue.

Since its been 130 years and we still don't know who wrote it or when, it should have been properly recorded verbatim at least.

130 years later it means no more today than it did in 1888. And anyone who believes it to have been written by the killer or relates to any murder is deluded.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,

I sense you're making this up as you go along.

In the absence of a perfect chronology we've little choice, but at least my suggestion was based on everyday practicalities. "About 2:20" and "at 2:20" are different things and, as you know, Goulston Street isn't a particularly long thoroughfare; the difference between "about" and "at" could easily have given ample time for Long and Halse to have missed each other.

[Trevor Marriott]

Let's say Halse was there at exactly 2:20 (although that's questionable in itself) and Long's "about twenty minutes past two" could have meant anything between 2:17 and 2:23 (say), and we already have quite a margin, especially if Long was moving at beat-pace and Halse was moving more briskly. It wouldn't have taken the latter much time to pass the Wentworth Dwellings' doorway and out of Long's orbit.

Halse must have passed by the archway twice.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

In the absence of a perfect chronology we've little choice, but at least my suggestion was based on everyday practicalities. "About 2:20" and "at 2:20" are different things and, as you know, Goulston Street isn't a particularly long thoroughfare; the difference between "about" and "at" could easily have given ample time for Long and Halse to have missed each other.

But there was no one else in the street it seems, one must have either seen or heard the other.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

Considering what played out between Halse and Long a bit later, it's not hard to imagine them both being outside the entrance to Wentworth Model Dwellings at 2.20 am.

Regards,

Simon

[Joshua Rogan]

Halse must have passed by the archway twice.

How do you work that out?

[Joshua Rogan]

In the absence of a perfect chronology we've little choice, but at least my suggestion was based on everyday practicalities. "About 2:20" and "at 2:20" are different things and, as you know, Goulston Street isn't a particularly long thoroughfare; the difference between "about" and "at" could easily have given ample time for Long and Halse to have missed each other.

Most of the press coverage has Halse saying "about", for what it's worth...

Daily News
I came through Goulston street about twenty minutes past two, where the apron was found, and then went back to Mitre square

Daily Telegraph
I came through Goulston-street about twenty minutes past two, and then returned to Mitre-square, subsequently going to the mortuary.

Morning Advertiser
I came through Goulston street, where the apron was found, about 20 minutes past two.

Times
He came through Goulston-street about 20 minutes past 2, at the spot where the apron was found, and he then went back to Mitre-square and accompanied Inspector Collard to the mortuary.

[Trevor Marriott]

How do you work that out?

He says he went from Mitre Sq - Middlesex St-Wentworth Street quickest way via new Goulston street which would have brought him out opposite the Archway. Then back along Gouslton St to Mitre Square so two chances to see or hear Pc Long

If he had gone via Aldgate he would have also passed the Archway and he would have had even more chance of seeing or hearing Pc Long

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Wickerman]

It's not like either Halse or Long was asked to make note of the time you pass 108-119, 'something is going to be found there'.
Both officers are guessing.
Long knows roughly how many minutes passed the hour it was that he passed that very spot since he came on duty at 10:00, also he may have just heard the chime of a local church bell at the quarter-hour, but was that two minutes ago or five minutes ago?
If either had a watch it likely would be Halse, but he makes no reference to one, but why would he take note of the time at that specific location?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

PC Long had been transferred from A Division. This was his first night on a beat in strange and unknown territory.

Why was he not accompanied on his beat?

Regards,

Simon