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The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    I can’t see why it’s surprising or suspicious that it was found by someone that was actually paid to be vigilant?
    ...most of the time, at least Waspish comment aside, your point is entirely valid, Herlock.

    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post

      Two police witnesses in Goulston Street at approximately the same time and place. Yet neither reports seeing the other,.....
      You should take a walk down Berner st. between 12:30 and 1:00..





      Regards, Jon S.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Monty View Post

        Yep.

        The writing is completely and utterly immaterial. Taking a photograph of it is a pointless act. It’s use is non-beneficial.

        Monty
        At least we'd know what it actually said.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Monty View Post
          I’m sure many of the old hands here recognise this circular debate. It’s interesting to note the posts above are almost identical from those made in 2002.

          The writing is immaterial in terms of evidence.

          Holds no insight whatsoever.

          Monty
          Hello Monty,

          Might it not have potentially held some handwriting evidence should a suspect have been arrested? As we don’t know what the handwriting looked like might there not have been some idiosyncrasy in the formation of the letters?
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
            Hi Harry,

            Two police witnesses in Goulston Street at approximately the same time and place. Yet neither reports seeing the other, the piece of apron, or the chalked message. Yet, within the hour, one of them discovers the chalked message and piece of apron, and a little later at the mortuary the other is first to notice that a piece of apron is missing from the deceased.

            Yes, it's one of many BS stories that make up the WM.

            Regards,

            Simon
            Hello Simon,

            Isn't the word approximately relevant here?
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

              Hello Monty,

              Might it not have potentially held some handwriting evidence should a suspect have been arrested? As we don’t know what the handwriting looked like might there not have been some idiosyncrasy in the formation of the letters?
              My take on that is that one's "vertical" handwriting doesn't much resemble the horizontal. My writing on a wall or whiteboard is very, very different from my "normal" writing, and I write so infrequently on a vertical surface that there's little consistency in my writing from one whiteboard to the next.

              In addition, the GSG was written in a "round", neat hand, implying that whoever wrote it was taking his/her time. All a suspect would have to do - if arrested and asked for a sample - would be to write more quickly, and chances are the result wouldn't look much like the GSG. (I'd imagine that it would be fairly easy to disguise one's writing under such circumstances in any case.)
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Monty View Post

                Yep.

                The writing is completely and utterly immaterial. Taking a photograph of it is a pointless act. It’s use is non-beneficial.

                Monty
                I would disagree with that Monty, although Im sure you know the letter of the law better than I do. It seems to me that until such time as the author of the message was identified and a time for its appearance could be established....it remains possibly connected to the physical evidence relating to a murder based on their discovery time and proximity to one another alone. Any message content is therefore a potential clue.

                Since its been 130 years and we still don't know who wrote it or when, it should have been properly recorded verbatim at least.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Monty View Post

                  Yep.

                  The writing is completely and utterly immaterial. Taking a photograph of it is a pointless act. It’s use is non-beneficial.

                  Monty
                  then why did many of the police at the time think it was also a mistake to erase?
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                    It seems to me that until such time as the author of the message was identified and a time for its appearance could be established....it remains possibly connected to the physical evidence
                    The apron piece proved that the killer was there at some point, and - because it matched the remainder of Eddowes' apron - it connected him to the crime. The graffito did neither definitively so, as a clue, it was redundant at best.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                      then why did many of the police at the time think it was also a mistake to erase?
                      Presumably because they thought it could be identified, as per the decision to publish copies of Dear Boss/Saucy Jack. That was unlikely to succeed in the case of the GSG, unless the killer were a teacher/lecturer whose vertical, chalked writing was sufficiently consistent and familiar that a student, or fellow teacher, would recognise it.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                        Hello Monty,

                        Might it not have potentially held some handwriting evidence should a suspect have been arrested? As we don’t know what the handwriting looked like might there not have been some idiosyncrasy in the formation of the letters?
                        Matching up handwriting samples is notoriously difficult. Especially when considering ones handwriting alters naturally, and is dependant of surface texture and angles.

                        However if one did manage to match the samples, then what? It’s proof as to the suspect being in Goulston Street but does not put a knife in their hands, nor clarify a time.

                        Monty
                        Last edited by Monty; 07-01-2019, 01:22 PM.
                        Monty

                        https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                          then why did many of the police at the time think it was also a mistake to erase?
                          Not many, a few.

                          Halse was against the erasure because, I suspect, of the reason Herlock states. A potential lead. However more evidence than that would have been required to gain a trial.

                          However it wasnt Halses patch, it was Arnold. Halses remit it detection, Arnold prevention. Arnold’s manor, Arnold’s call.

                          Monty
                          Monty

                          https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                            I would disagree with that Monty, although Im sure you know the letter of the law better than I do. It seems to me that until such time as the author of the message was identified and a time for its appearance could be established....it remains possibly connected to the physical evidence relating to a murder based on their discovery time and proximity to one another alone. Any message content is therefore a potential clue.

                            Since its been 130 years and we still don't know who wrote it or when, it should have been properly recorded verbatim at least.
                            I speak purely in terms of trial. It may have some benefit as an investigatory tool, as Herlock points out. So yes, ‘potential’ in that sense.

                            Monty
                            Monty

                            https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                              At least we'd know what it actually said.
                              True, but it’s interpretation is entirely subjective.

                              Monty
                              Monty

                              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Monty View Post

                                Not many, a few.

                                Halse was against the erasure because, I suspect, of the reason Herlock states. A potential lead. However more evidence than that would have been required to gain a trial.

                                However it wasnt Halses patch, it was Arnold. Halses remit it detection, Arnold prevention. Arnold’s manor, Arnold’s call.

                                Monty
                                Hi Monty
                                Thanks! But couldn't a photo of it have been used at trial as a comparison to the suspects handwriting?
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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