The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Pcdunn]

Interesting, that this inscription used the word "nothing" in a way that left no doubt that the author was referring to the victim.

Probably a hoax, but too bad the photograph got lost (if it did).

[jerryd]

Actually, it might help if I posted the article. Apologies

"Jack the Ripper" at Greenwich

On Tuesday morning, some writing in chalk was found on the large gate in the rear of the Ordnance Arms public house, Lewisham road.
The following were the words. "October 14, 88. Murder. Dear Boss, if you want to find the head of the body found on Embankment, it is in a sack on the water. I have done another (this word was indistinctly written and might have been 'nothing') tonight. Jack the Ripper. Revenge"
There was a rude drawing of a dagger at the commencement of the writing.
On the discovery of the writing becoming known, a large crowd assembled. A policeman was sent up from Blackheath road to watch the place and see that the writing was not obliterated until it had been photographed, which was done later on the same day by Inspector Castle.

I don't known if this was just a precaution after the outcry over the erasing of the GSG, or had any genuine evidentiary value.
I incline to the former, and a hoax. Still, I wonder where the photograph is?

All the best.

Hi Martin,

Another chalk writing was found in Deptford not too far from this location also in October of 1888.

Echo
London, U.K.
29 October 1888

It is stated that the words, "I shall do another murder, and will receive her heart," have been found written in chalk on the footway in Camplin-street, Deptford."

[martin wilson]

Hi Jerry d

That is interesting, a possible reference to Mary Kelly?

In the context of theories abound, a letter appeared in the Daily News 13/10/88 which I offer for consideration.

The Writing On The Wall.

Sir- It seems a very great deal of unnecessary fuss is being made about the rubbing out of the "writing on the wall" in Whitechapel
It seems to be generally assumed that if this writing had been photographed the police would have been put in possession of a trustworthy means of identifying the "hand" of the murderer.
Now, if anyone will take the trouble to write a similar sentence upon a surface of the same kind, he will be astonished at the difference between his production and his ordinary writing.
There are very few people who can write easily and freely upon a black board until they have had considerable practice, and writing upon a less regular surface is more difficult still. At first the letters are much more irregular and much more cramped than in ordinary writing, and the likeness of writing with a pen or pencil and the larger characters traced in chalk only comes out unmistakably after long practice. I have indeed known men who wrote entirely different hands under the different circumstances, so that a knowledge of the true handwriting would by no means have been the necessary consequence of preserving a sentence written under the Whitechapel conditions. Of course the writer may have been an experienced hand at black board demonstrations, but the supposition is not likely.
It seems, therefore that if this writing had been preserved it might very possibly thrown the pursuers off the scent instead of proving the invaluable clue that some suppose.
I am-

A WRITER WITH CHALK

All the best.

[martin wilson]

Reposting some information I wrongly posted on the Leaving One's Beat thread.

A chalk system was introduced by the police so that the beat sergeant could see the officers were where they were supposed to be.
It worked like this. The beat constable made a chalk mark at a known point. The beat sergeant would see it and rub it out.
Next time around the constable would leave another chalk mark, which the sergeant would expect to see on his next inspection.

Herlock Sholmes made the excellent suggestion that mischief makers would rub it out instead, and get the constable in trouble.
Possibly unprovable but must be true.

So the speculation is that policemen were carrying chalk around with them, which I think is of interest.

All the best.

[DJA]

Hi Jerry d

That is interesting, a possible reference to Mary Kelly?

In the context of theories abound, a letter appeared in the Daily News 13/10/88 which I offer for consideration.

The Writing On The Wall.

Sir- It seems a very great deal of unnecessary fuss is being made about the rubbing out of the "writing on the wall" in Whitechapel
It seems to be generally assumed that if this writing had been photographed the police would have been put in possession of a trustworthy means of identifying the "hand" of the murderer.
Now, if anyone will take the trouble to write a similar sentence upon a surface of the same kind, he will be astonished at the difference between his production and his ordinary writing.
There are very few people who can write easily and freely upon a black board until they have had considerable practice, and writing upon a less regular surface is more difficult still. At first the letters are much more irregular and much more cramped than in ordinary writing, and the likeness of writing with a pen or pencil and the larger characters traced in chalk only comes out unmistakably after long practice. I have indeed known men who wrote entirely different hands under the different circumstances, so that a knowledge of the true handwriting would by no means have been the necessary consequence of preserving a sentence written under the Whitechapel conditions. Of course the writer may have been an experienced hand at black board demonstrations, but the supposition is not likely.
It seems, therefore that if this writing had been preserved it might very possibly thrown the pursuers off the scent instead of proving the invaluable clue that some suppose.
I am-

A WRITER WITH CHALK

All the best.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter ..... a pathology teacher who had been preparing classroom boards for Monday's start of the Michaelmas Term.

Would be ~ 5'3" by the height of the writing , about the same as the man seen by Long with Chapman outside 29 Hanbury Street.

[Joshua Rogan]

Reposting some information I wrongly posted on the Leaving One's Beat thread.

A chalk system was introduced by the police so that the beat sergeant could see the officers were where they were supposed to be.
It worked like this. The beat constable made a chalk mark at a known point. The beat sergeant would see it and rub it out.
Next time around the constable would leave another chalk mark, which the sergeant would expect to see on his next inspection.

Herlock Sholmes made the excellent suggestion that mischief makers would rub it out instead, and get the constable in trouble.
Possibly unprovable but must be true.

So the speculation is that policemen were carrying chalk around with them, which I think is of interest.

Just came.across a similar system described in the Daily News 2nd Oct, but using whalebone rather than chalk;

"The speaker went on to describe what he referred to as a regular system the City police sergeants had for testing the close scrutiny given by their men to the property along their beats. On this particular ground, at all events, according to this witness, it has long been the practice for constables to slip into the cracks of doors or the crevices of windows little bits of bent whalebone in such a manner that the opening of the door or window lets the whalebone fall and reveals the fact of disturbances to the officer on his next turn. This enables the sergeant to test the vigilance of his men, by here and there removing the tell-tale and then waiting to see whether the removal will be detected."

[c.d.]

Interesting to see a 60/40 split in favor of a no vote. I have to wonder how a sure/somewhat sure/likely type of breakdown would skewer those results.

c.d.

[etenguy]

It is a coincidence, at the very least, that the only two communications potentially authenticated by murder scene artifacts (apron and kidney) are both related to the Catherine Eddowes murder. Was the murderer spooked at almost being caught with Liz Stride and wanted to hit back? Was he so spooked that his next victim was murdered in doors?

[Varqm]

The only way I'll believe it was written by the killer is,as I read/think police at that time believed,is he was trying to implicate the Jews.Perhaps from the anti-semitic reactions from the Chapman murder,took advantage of that,wanted to cause a riot to deflect attention/focus away from his crimes perhaps or wanted to see a riot/violence.It did not work so he stopped,hence no writing in Kelly's murder.

He was spooked and killed indoors because of increasing police/vigilante presence,house-to-house search/interviews,thousands of flyers.Both of the latter was in October if I remember correctly.In November he found an indoor victim.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ive always believed that the likeliest way to come close to a decision on whether the message was written by Jack or not was to weigh up the pro’s and con’s of why the apron was found where it was? Was it just casually discarded or was it deliberately placed as a pointer to the message? There are various possible explainations and of course we wouldnt all agree on how likely or unlikely each of them were. But, in my opinion, as there is nothing in the text to point us in either direction a weighing up of why the apron was found where it was might give us more to go on.

[Sam Flynn]

Ive always believed that the likeliest way to come close to a decision on whether the message was written by Jack or not was to weigh up the pro’s and con’s of why the apron was found where it was? Was it just casually discarded or was it deliberately placed as a pointer to the message?

That doesn't seem to have been the case, in that PC Long saw the apron first but only discovered the graffito whilst searching the passage for signs of blood.

Coroner: How came you to observe the writing on the wall?
Long: I saw it while trying to discover whether there were any marks of blood about.

Had the graffito been directly above the apron, I'd have expected Long to have indicated as much in his reply to that question.

[Jon Guy]

Had the graffito been directly above the apron, I'd have expected Long to have indicated as much in his reply to that question.

He did state: above on the wall

[Sam Flynn]

He did state: above on the wall

Indeed, but the wall above extended vertically and horizontally for several feet, and the Coroner's question ("How came you to observe...?") was asked, and answered, subsequently to that statement. Presumably Crawford needed further clarification, hence his explicitly asking Long how he discovered the writing.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think that it still could be said that the dropping of the apron anywhere within that small entry might have been intentional on the part of the killer. Only ‘might’ though of course.

[etenguy]

Indeed, but the wall above extended vertically and horizontally for several feet, and the Coroner's question ("How came you to observe...?") was asked, and answered, subsequently to that statement. Presumably Crawford needed further clarification, hence his explicitly asking Long how he discovered the writing.

Actions, I think, tell us more than words in this instance. The police at the time felt the apron was close enough to the writing that a connection could be inferred. The evidence is:
a) that it was noticed and the person who noticed it thought it worth bringing to attention, and did so.
b) that the writing was noted in at least two policeman's note books because it might be evidence.
c) that Charles Warren thought the writing might commonly be associated with the apron, and hence the killer, so had it erased.

All this tells me that the apron and the writing were juxtaposed sufficiently close to each other that a connection was implied. This doesn't, though, necessarily mean that they believed the killer wrote the GSG.