The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[etenguy]

Good point, but I honestly doubt whether "IWMES" was ever used to refer to the Berner Street club. "Eye Double-You Em Ee Ess" doesn't exactly trip off the tongue. "Hey, Hymie! Do you fancy comin' down the Eye Double-Yew Em Ee Ess tonight for a sing-song?"

It would never catch on.

And yet it is fun to stay at the why emm cee aye.

[Wickerman]

...... "Hey, Hymie! Do you fancy comin' down the Eye Double-Yew Em Ee Ess tonight for a sing-song?"

It would never catch on.

And yet it is fun to stay at the why emm cee aye.

I think you two guy's are bored.

[Sam Flynn]

And yet it is fun to stay at the why emm cee aye.

Nice one That said, YMCA has fewer syllables, and those it has trip off the tongue a little more easily.

On another tack, whilst we love our acronyms these days - to the point of obsession - I'm not so sure that they did back then, at least not to the same degree. To my mind it would more likely have been referred to as "the Berner St club", "the institute", or just "the club" to those in the know. Or, possibly - given the lingua franca of the clientèle - a Yiddish equivalent.

[etenguy]

I think you two guy's are bored.

Never bored in your company, Wickerman - but typed during the adverts.

[Michael W Richards]

Back to the fundamental issue here...I believe a strong case could be made for the cloth and the writing to have been placed there at the same time, not that Long would likely have noticed only the writing his first pass by. It just seems that they were there together, or at least married by the killer when he chose a proximity to the cloth. They are intended to be a single message.

Is that message from Jack? Or is it from the guy who killed Kate, who may or may not be Jack. The only thing we really know is that he appears to be anti-Semitic.

[Varqm]

The writer could easily have been somebody who did not want to get involved like Pipeman,Joe Fleming,an immigrant.
If the writer was innocent his/her graffito was useless to the case/series and had no need to report.All he/she'll get is possible
trouble because the writing was anti-semitic or easily understood as such.

[Michael W Richards]

The writer could easily have been somebody who did not want to get involved like Pipeman,Joe Fleming,an immigrant.
If the writer was innocent his/her graffito was useless to the case/series and had no need to report.All he/she'll get is possible
trouble because the writing was anti-semitic or easily understood as such.

Not useless, because it would raise the question as to whether the writing was the reason the cloth was left at that particular spot, showing us, as you say, perhaps anti-Semitic sentiments from the man who left the cloth.

I think its quite probable that if the man who left the cloth didn't also write the message, he placed the cloth there in some sort of solidarity with the principle it espoused. I don't believe that is accidental or coincidental they appear in such close proximity to one another.

Which would raise an interesting question, if this man who wrote the message was also Kates killer, why wasn't he wreaking havoc on just Jews, or Jewish women? Is his anti-Semitism just another personality disorder?

[martin wilson]

I don't know if George Morris was on duty at Kearley and Tonge on the 29th November 1894, but if so he was on his usual top form, the entire place burned down.

I'm assuming it was him who prosecuted a shoemaker named Alexander Birke (A Petty Prosecution South Wales Echo 12/9/1888) for the theft of an empty champagne case.
Alderman Sir Andrew Lusk dismissed the case and released the prisoner.
Despite the protestations of Morris that he had known people prosecuted for the theft of a turnip, Sir Andrew stated the man was not known, there was no evidence he had stolen the packing case and anyway it was worth nothing!

I don't know if Mr Birke was Jewish.

[Varqm]

Not useless, because it would raise the question as to whether the writing was the reason the cloth was left at that particular spot, showing us, as you say, perhaps anti-Semitic sentiments from the man who left the cloth.

I think its quite probable that if the man who left the cloth didn't also write the message, he placed the cloth there in some sort of solidarity with the principle it espoused. I don't believe that is accidental or coincidental they appear in such close proximity to one another.

Which would raise an interesting question, if this man who wrote the message was also Kates killer, why wasn't he wreaking havoc on just Jews, or Jewish women? Is his anti-Semitism just another personality disorder?

You're right but from an investigation point of view it's hard to make a case for either an innocent writer or not.Warren was correct in erasing the graffito because what if a riot occurred and later on it turned out to be an innocent writer?

[c.d.]

Ah the thread that refuses to die. For those just tuning in, our story so far -- the GSG may or may not have been written by Kate's killer. It may or may not express an anti-Jewish sentiment. The writer himself may or may not have been Jewish. As for what the message means nobody knows and guesses are welcome. Stay tuned for further developments but holding of the breath is not advised.

c.d.

[Elamarna]

Ah the thread that refuses to die. For those just tuning in, our story so far -- the GSG may or may not have been written by Kate's killer. It may or may not express an anti-Jewish sentiment. The writer himself may or may not have been Jewish. As for what the message means nobody knows and guesses are welcome. Stay tuned for further developments but holding of the breath is not advised.

c.d.

C.D.

Very well summed up account of both the facts and the Thread


Steve

[Callmebill]

I reckon he did.

It's maybe the first case of a serial killer leaving a calling card, certainly not the last. If the Ripper wrote the Goulston Street message, then he's either blaming the judiciary or police, and/or proclaiming himself, judge, jury, and executioner.

Jewes
Jewes Interpretation:Translation jewes, jewes, -esse var. juise Obs., judgement.[1]
Juise — Ju*ise , n. [OF. juise. L. judicium. See {Judicial}.] Judgment; justice; sentence. [Obs.] [1913 Webster] Up [on] pain of hanging and high juise. Chaucer. [1913 Webster] … The Collaborative International Dictionary of English. Modern.
A GRAMMAR OF MODERN INDO-EUROPEAN Third Edition. Jewes - diks : Judge.

[Elamarna]

It's maybe the first case of a serial killer leaving a calling card, certainly not the last. If the Ripper wrote the Goulston Street message, then he's either blaming the judiciary or police, and/or proclaiming himself, judge, jury, and executioner.

Jewes
Jewes Interpretation:Translation jewes, jewes, -esse var. juise Obs., judgement.[1]
Juise — Ju*ise , n. [OF. juise. L. judicium. See {Judicial}.] Judgment; justice; sentence. [Obs.] [1913 Webster] Up [on] pain of hanging and high juise. Chaucer. [1913 Webster] … The Collaborative International Dictionary of English. Modern.
A GRAMMAR OF MODERN INDO-EUROPEAN Third Edition. Jewes - diks : Judge.

Do you know Pierre?
That was his idea too.


Steve

[martin wilson]

Does anybody know what happened to the photograph of the graffiti that was photographed by Inspector Castle?
"Jack the Ripper" at Greenwich. Woolwich Gazette 19th October 1888.
Thanks.

[martin wilson]

Actually, it might help if I posted the article. Apologies

"Jack the Ripper" at Greenwich

On Tuesday morning, some writing in chalk was found on the large gate in the rear of the Ordnance Arms public house, Lewisham road.
The following were the words. "October 14, 88. Murder. Dear Boss, if you want to find the head of the body found on Embankment, it is in a sack on the water. I have done another (this word was indistinctly written and might have been 'nothing') tonight. Jack the Ripper. Revenge"
There was a rude drawing of a dagger at the commencement of the writing.
On the discovery of the writing becoming known, a large crowd assembled. A policeman was sent up from Blackheath road to watch the place and see that the writing was not obliterated until it had been photographed, which was done later on the same day by Inspector Castle.

I don't known if this was just a precaution after the outcry over the erasing of the GSG, or had any genuine evidentiary value.
I incline to the former, and a hoax. Still, I wonder where the photograph is?

All the best.