Pawn tickets in Mitre Square

[Errata]

Thank God this is a message-board in written text, and not a podcast

I'd like to think my staunchly American accent would have made it less confusing than an English one

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

I would suggest you answer your own question, for you obviously have an acceptable answer in mind.

Not at all Simon. I was hoping for your answer. I find it extraordinary that you refuse to answer what is, after all, a very simple question.

I can't help wondering what you would have said had Henry Matthews responded to an Irish Nationalist question in the House in this manner.

Anyway, I've asked the question three times; if you can't answer it, or can't bring yourself to answer it, there is clearly nothing more I can do.

[Simon Wood]

Your question is unanswerable.

And you know it.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Your question is unanswerable.

And you know it.

I know no such thing, Simon. And what you are saying now is very different to what you said in post #13 in this thread when you said:

"I have no difficulty in answering your question."

Now you tell me it's unanswerable!!!!

Well Pcdunn didn't seem to have much difficulty answering it. In your previous post you were suggesting I answer my own question, so you must have thought it was answerable.

As it happens, I think the answer is very simple and obvious. But I was hoping for your answer Simon because you posted, "accepting a 9d pawn ticket from Emily Burrell for an unseen flannel shirt which may or may not have fitted John Kelly, and which, with interest and the pawn ticket fee, would have cost her 10½d to find out, does not make a great deal of sense, fiscal or otherwise". I wanted to know - and would still like to know - if you think it would make fiscal sense if the flannel shirt was worth more than 10½d. It strikes me as a reasonable question which is perfectly capable of being answered.

[GUT]

I know that during the depression years, here in Aus, pawn tickets became a means of trade. At least in some communities. My 5d ticket on my 2s item for your 6d item.

Why, because I now realize I'll never get together the 6d to redeem it. I only took the minimum pawn thinking it'd be less interest. But if someone doesn't redeem it the winner is the Pawn shop.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Perhaps I should have added, "by your requirements it is unanswerable."

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

Perhaps I should have added, "by your requirements it is unanswerable."

I haven't included any requirements, Simon. It's a simple, standalone, question.

I fear you are making the classic mistake made by witnesses under cross-examination when they try to anticipate where a particular line of questioning is going rather than focusing on just answering the question they are being asked.

Can you not just answer the question without worrying about what I'm trying to establish?

I'm not really sure what problem you are having with it - and despite your earlier denial you clearly are having difficulty - but if it makes it easier I'll amend my question for you to this:

Would it have made fiscal sense if the flannel shirt was worth more than 10½d and Eddowes and/or Kelly knew this?

[Scott Nelson]

The question of the pawn tickets are explored in pages 501-507 of Simon's book.

[Errata]

does anyone know the price of a new shirt?

[David Orsam]

The question of the pawn tickets are explored in pages 501-507 of Simon's book.

Just to note that I have read Simon's book (and indeed his point about Eddowes' acceptance of the pawn ticket not making fiscal sense is made in that book) but he does not consider the issue of whether the flannel shirt might have been worth more than 10½d, hence my question in this thread, for which I have yet to receive an answer.

[jerryd]

does anyone know the price of a new shirt?

A flannel shirt was about 3 shillings, according to this website. http://www.victorianweb.org/economics/wages4.html

(looks like it may be from our Richard Patterson?) If so, thanks, Richard!

[David Orsam]

A flannel shirt was about 3 shillings, according to this website. http://www.victorianweb.org/economics/wages4.html

(looks like it may be from our Richard Patterson?) If so, thanks, Richard!

Quite a bit more than 10½d then.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Explain to me exactly how Eddowes and Kelly might have known the value of the shirt.

Regards,

Simon

[harry]

Might not Kelly and Eddowes have asked the value on receiving the ticket.

Did it have to be a new shirt?

[GUT]

I find people who have very little money are more likely to know the cost of a necessity that those who are better off.