The GOGMAGOG-letter

[GUT]

That was a shitty thing to say.

Mike

Yep

But true

[Pierre]

[B]

Hang on it can't be because in post 66 you said:


"There can be one detail in the letter pointing to him, but that is all. For me, this letter has a very low validity and reliability.

I asked you to provide an example of a methaphor from the letter.

your reply:

"Perhaps you will be able to find a metaphor in the letter yourself tomorrow or the day after tomorrow."

Pierre that not the way its done old man. when you claim something is present and are asked to point it out you don't say go find it yourself, which is what you done.

Show us a Metaphor from the letter otherwise we will all assume there are none.

Sure. I will give you a metaphor:

The signature GOGMAGOG.

Gog and Magog were protectors of London.

The police were protectors of London.

(For the protective function of the police, see Monro, James. 1890. The London Police. )

Regards Pierre

[Rosella]

^ Wrong, Pierre. Gog and Magog, as they evolved from mythic figures from ancient times, were protectors of the City of London, of the Square Mile, of the financial hub of the city, not the sprawling mass of city outside.

That's why their effigies were placed at the portals of the Guildhall, which symbolised the City of London's wealth and prestige. Nothing to do with the Metropolitan Police, Monro or Scotland Yard.

The writer who signed himself GogMagog knew that and referred to it. You do know how Lord Mayors of London were elected, don't you Pierre?

[Elamarna]

Sure. I will give you a metaphor:

The signature GOGMAGOG.

Gog and Magog were protectors of London.

The police were protectors of London.

(For the protective function of the police, see Monro, James. 1890. The London Police. )

Regards Pierre

that is not a metaphor?

coded is not the same thing, don't you know that.

anyway, the signature does not provide back up for your statement that the letter is metaphorical

[Elamarna]

Pierre,,
not being nasty but do you understand the difference between the City of London (1.12 Square miles.) and Greater London (611Square miles)
Only one murder took place within The City Of london.
the Commissioner Charles Warren, had nothing to do with the city of london.

[Pierre]

Pierre,,
not being nasty but do you understand the difference between the City of London (1.12 Square miles.) and Greater London (611Square miles)
Only one murder took place within The City Of london.
the Commissioner Charles Warren, had nothing to do with the city of london.

The metaphor GOGMAGOG, if it is a metaphor (who knows), is connected to the City of London but the function of protecting is the important thing. The police (as a profession) should protect the people.

Regards Pierre

[Elamarna]

My Dear Pierre,

that is not a metaphor, your comment:

"The metaphor GOGMAGOG, if it is a metaphor (who knows),"

suggests you do not understand the difference between a coded message and a metaphor.

"The police (as a profession) should protect the people."

where does that come from?
It can, and indeed has been argued that the main purpose of the law and the police is to to project property and wealth, not the people.
Your view that it is about protection is based on what ? a metaphor which isn’t a metaphor, a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of the police. Without being at all rude you are being very naive.

I am seriously trying to work with you at the moment, but it is not easy.

[Pierre]

My Dear Pierre,

that is not a metaphor, your comment:

"The metaphor GOGMAGOG, if it is a metaphor (who knows),"

suggests you do not understand the difference between a coded message and a metaphor.

"The police (as a profession) should protect the people."

where does that come from?

From James Monro.

It can, and indeed has been argued that the main purpose of the law and the police is to to project property and wealth, not the people.

Haha! You are being funny now Steve! Protect "property and wealth, not the people". People are owners of property and wealth!

Go on and read Monro´s text The London Police from 1890. He writes about the "thorough recognition on the part of the citizens at large of the police as their friend and protectors".


Your view that it is about protection is based on what ? a metaphor which isn’t a metaphor, a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of the police.

So Monro had a "basic misunderstanding of the purpose of the police"? Come on Steve.

I am doing a functional historical analysis. The function of Gog and Magog are to guard, to protect. The function of the police is also to protect. So what are the "intentions" he has formed? To protect someone? If he is Gog and Magog, that is the function. If he is a policeman, that is also the function.

Without being at all rude you are being very naive.

No. It shows how the police perceived of themselves. As protectors. And if a police official wrote the GOGMAGOG-letter, he perceived of the police as protectors. That is why it must be an ironical statement when he calls himself GOGMAGOG, a "protector" - when he is a killer.

I am seriously trying to work with you at the moment, but it is not easy.

Well, I don´t think it is so bad. I think you are doing rather well. So cheer up!

Regards Pierre

[MysterySinger]

And be there the slightest proof behind this hypothesis?

I suspect not.

What is known -

The newspaper was published on 6th November 1888.
The postmark had to be 29th October 1888.
The address quoted is 14 Dorset Street.

Possible inferences -
a) Look out for him on Thursday night - either 1st or 8th November.
b) at either of the piers - Yarmouth piers Britannia and Wellington - Whitechapel pubs The Britannia and Duke of Wellington.
c) where he intends to do for two Norwich women before closing time - intends to murder 2 women who are getting more than their fair share.

Seems like a letter that could have been written by someone who knew the intentions of the Ripper. No proof that it was, no proof that it wasn't.

[Elamarna]

please Pierre,

"People are owners of property and wealth!",

not all the people, just the top few percent,
The law is biased inn the favour of the rich, always has been and probably always will be.

"From James Monro".

so what, that’s what he was paid to do, say the right thing. Senior police offers are also politicians to some extent you know.
Its the same as when a politician makes promises, you must understand that

As for the rest of your post, with all due respect it is based on your perception of the the letter and the totally idealistic and unreal view you have of policing.

regards

elamarna

[Pierre]

What is known -

The newspaper was published on 6th November 1888.
The postmark had to be 29th October 1888.
The address quoted is 14 Dorset Street.

Possible inferences -
a) Look out for him on Thursday night - either 1st or 8th November.
b) at either of the piers - Yarmouth piers Britannia and Wellington - Whitechapel pubs The Britannia and Duke of Wellington.
c) where he intends to do for two Norwich women before closing time - intends to murder 2 women who are getting more than their fair share.

Seems like a letter that could have been written by someone who knew the intentions of the Ripper. No proof that it was, no proof that it wasn't.

Hi MysterySinger,

And it was in the Ipswich Journal on the 2nd of November.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

please Pierre,

"People are owners of property and wealth!",

not all the people, just the top few percent,
The law is biased inn the favour of the rich, always has been and probably always will be.

Sure. But the rich are still people, I guess.

"From James Monro".

so what, that’s what he was paid to do, say the right thing.

I am afraid I can´t follow you now.

Senior police offers are also politicians to some extent you know.
Its the same as when a politician makes promises, you must understand that

As for the rest of your post, with all due respect it is based on your perception of the the letter and the totally idealistic and unreal view you have of policing.

Pardon?

regards

elamarna

Steve, I think perhaps you should not waste so much time on me, but go ahead and have a very nice Christmas day instead.

Regards Pierre

[MysterySinger]

Here is the Ipswich info.

[GUT]

Aren't the two press reports all but identical?

[MysterySinger]

The two press reports are similar but published on different dates. They don't disagree with each other and both support the fact that the letter was postmarked Monday (29th October 1888). Whether there is significance in that date is unclear, other than the fact it is before the murder of MJK and points to a Thursday night (which if it referred to 8th November is quite significant). If genuine, it would also support the view that there was an intention to commit 2 murders that night.