The GOGMAGOG-letter

[Elamarna]

Pierre,

I am quoting from a post of David Osram, to save on typing.

David I hope you do not mind.

so lets compare

"On 18 September he said of his suspect:

'He wrote a letter to the editor in a paper not signing it “Jack the Ripper” where he gave the exact address to one of the murder sites.'"

Obviously not the case

"On 13 November he elaborated on this by saying:

"I have found such a letter (unknown by ripperology) in the press. He uses a metaphorical language and gives the adress to Millerīs Court, the name of Mary Jane Kelly, her room number and the date of the murder.""


Gives the address of Miller's Court? Not really we are being asked to interpret quarter mile as:

Mile means “Mille”. Quart (er) is phonetically similar to Court.


Yes we have the date because we are talking about the Lord Mayors Show


ROOM NUMBER, well that is apparently reached by saying "nearly quarter of a mile", A quarter of a mile is 1320 feet (nice to see you working in imperial)
but the letter says nearly a quarter mile, so obviously he does not mean a quarter mile, does he mean more or less? My first response was to say well could be 1319. but nearly could mean less than 1300 so it might be 1299.?if the writer meant to convey 13 and 20 why not say quarter mile, not nearly quarter mile?


And Name, well no name, we are meant to understand that it hidden in the phrase "grand gilt coach"

"Interpretation: Lord Tennyson wrote in a known letter about the grand gilt coach. And he wrote a drama called Queen Mary. In this drama there is Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth and the Lord Mayor."

so the police were expected to know the complete works of Tennyson?



"On 14 November, a slight shift, as it is now only the name of Mary that is included:

"I have also told you about a letter I think he wrote in the press, giving the adress to Millerīs Court and the name of the victim: Mary.""



see above.

"Under questioning from me, however, on 15 November, he said:

"Of course he would not write their true names and adresses in the newspapers. The police would have been waiting for him. ""

What can one say?

Other than of course you have say that, or else you could not attempt to pass this nonsense off.



to use a latin word does not mean you need to look for latin meanings

"Interpretation: A latin word indicating an interest in latin saying that you should look for latin words in this text."


I can see no reason to view the letter as you do, it seems n innocent letter with no other overtones, unless you have other evidence supporting that view of course.


"As I have said, I think this letter might have been written by him. But it is not any part of my research about the killerīs identity."

So why are you publishing it?
you think he could have written it?
Surely ""Gut feeling", "personal opinions" and stuff like that can not be used to write history."


[I"]But I can tell you that I believe that he did write to the police and there are a few sources indicating this".[/I]

But you are not going to elaborate because you haven’t found it yet have you?

"The GOGMAGOG-letter may or may not be one of his letters. One thing that supports such an hypothesis is that he knew latin."

Rosella has already point out that latin was learnt in grammer and public schools of the day, and using one word of latin does not mean he knew latin, only a phrase possibly

[Pcdunn]

Judaeo-Christian and Muslim interpretations

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

In the Old Testament, and the Koran, Gog and Magog are associated with invading outsiders, battles, and the apocalyptic end of the world.

IF the author of the GOGMAGOG letter knew his Bible, he could have been hinting that something would occur on the day of the Lord Mayor's Show which would seem to be of apocalyptic import.

But-- there are other interpretations as well...

[Rosella]

No doubt Pierre has jumped at that interpretation. However in London Gog and Magog were always associated with Brutus, who was a mythic warrior hero who founded Britain. They were regarded as quite benign figures, lodge keepers of the ancient Guildhall, fierce defenders of the liberties of the City of London.

As Pierre keeps directly posting about the Lord Mayors Procession then he may as well know that effigies of Gog and Magog have been carried in processions through London streets since the time of Henry V, and as the letter writer is referring to the Procession then it's that Gog and Magog he's writing about, not the evil biblical manifestations of the same name.

[Pcdunn]

The Guardians of London

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogmagog_(folklore)

As mentioned earlier in this thread, when "GOGMAGOG" signed the letter in this fashion, he may well have been referencing the folkloric characters of old Britain, specifically the guardians of London, rather than anything particularly sinister.

For all we know, GOGMAGOG's letter may have been written by the Lord Mayor himself! (All sorts of people wrote letters to the papers back then, and some carried fictious names attached to them, after all.) Even if the author was only a kindly elder citizen who wanted to encourage the youngsters to see "the show", and not the Mayor, the letter hardly seems to have enough substance to support the convoluted intrepretations Pierre has placed upon it.

[Elamarna]

the names meaning

Pcdunn,

Old Testament and Koran references of course are interesting,

but a quick search gives us the below as well:


"Gogmagog – also Goemagot, Goemagog or Gogmagoc – was a legendary giant in British folklore. According to the 12th Century Historia Regum Britanniae ("The History of The Kings of Britain") by Geoffrey of Monmouth, Gogmagog was a giant inhabitant of Albion, and was thrown off a cliff during a wrestling match with Corineus who was a companion of Brutus of Troy. Gogmagog was believed to be the last of the Giants to inhabit the land of Albion.[1] The name "Gogmagog" is often connected to the biblical characters Gog and Magog;[2] however Manley Pope, author of an 1862 English translation of the Welsh chronicle Brut y Brenhinedd (itself a translation of Monmouth's "Historia Regum Britanniae") argued that it was a corruption of Gawr Madoc (Madoc the Great).[3]"

from Wikipedia, this would suggest they MAY not the same figures.

However given the interpretation is related to the Lord Mayors Show, both in date, the upsetting of said show Tennyson’s play maybe we should look at the significance of the character/characters to London , and the Lord Mayor in particular



"Guardians of London
The Lord Mayor's account of Gog and Magog says that the Roman Emperor Diocletian had thirty-three wicked daughters. He found thirty-three husbands for them to curb their wicked ways; they chafed at this, and under the leadership of the eldest sister, Alba, they murdered their husbands. For this crime they were set adrift at sea; they washed ashore on a windswept island, which they named "Albion"—after Alba. Here they coupled with demons and gave birth to a race of giants, whose descendants included Gog and Magog.[4] The effigies of two giants were recorded in 1558 at the coronation of Queen Elizabeth I and were described as "Gogmagot the Albion" and "Corineus the Britain". These, or similar figures, made of "wickerwork and pasteboard" made regular appearances in the Lord Mayor's Show thereafter, although they became known as Gog and Magog over the years. New figures were carved from pine in 1709 by Captain Richard Saunders and displayed in the Guildhall until 1940 when they were destroyed in an air-raid; they were replaced by David Evans in 1953.[5]

Images of Gog and Magog (depicted as giants) are carried by Lord Mayors of the City of London in a traditional procession in the Lord Mayor's Show each year on the second Saturday of November."

[Michael W Richards]

I would think based on the way the thread author reads between the lines that he would do wonders with the few thousand Letters that were sent in.

Perhaps Dear Boss really refers to a clothier addicted to ginger beer who will be popular in the 21st century and clothe the German army,... who were known as the Third Reich,.. with 3 being the number of women that had abdominal mutilations in the streets, Reich meaning realm..referring to Whitechapel,...Leather Apron stands for the letters L and A, which stands for Ladies Abdomens, .......omg, this all fits!!

By George, I think Ive solved the case...but I cant tell you how or who. Ill just self promote the notion itself until someone boots me off here.

[Pcdunn]

Finally, I looked up the meaning of "constable" and found it does stem from Latin for "count of the stables", but it has more to do with military and police offices than keeping horses.

"Historically, the title comes from the Latin comes stabuli (attendant to the stables, literally count of the stables) and originated from the Roman Empire; originally, the constable was the officer responsible for keeping the horses of a lord or monarch.[1][2][3]

The title was imported to the monarchies of medieval Europe, and in many countries developed into a high military rank and great officer of State (e.g. the Constable of France, in French Connétable de France, who was the commander-in-chief of all royal armed forces (second to the king) until prime minister cardinal Richelieu abolished the charge in 1627).

Most constables in modern jurisdictions are law enforcement officers; in the United Kingdom, the Commonwealth of Nations and some Continental European countries, a constable is the lowest rank of police officer (it is also, when preceded by the term 'sworn', used to describe any police officer with arrest and other powers), while in the United States a constable is generally an elected peace officer with lesser jurisdiction than a sheriff. However, in the Channel Islands a constable is an elected office-holder at the parish level.

Historically, a constable could also refer to a castellan, the officer charged with the defense of a castle. Even today, there is a Constable of the Tower of London.

An equivalent position is that of Marshal, which derives from Old High German marah "horse" and schalh "servant",[4] and originally meant "stable keeper",[5] which has a similar etymology.[6] (Considering the origin of the word "marshal", the title and rank of Air Marshal in the British Royal Air Force and others has a very interesting literal meaning.)"-- from Wikipedia article "Constable", accessed 12-23-15.

Really, reading "smart cavalry" as "smart constables" is a bit of a stretch, Pierre.

Anyway, your interpretation of this letter means nothing, as we still don't know who Jack the Ripper was. Happy Holidays, anyway.

[GUT]

Seems to be nothing more than calling n families to bring the kiddy winkles along to the parade and show, and maybe even spend a few p.

But. Guess that's too simple old Pierre and his data.

[Pcdunn]

As Pierre keeps directly posting about the Lord Mayors Procession then he may as well know that effigies of Gog and Magog have been carried in processions through London streets since the time of Henry V, and as the letter writer is referring to the Procession then it's that Gog and Magog he's writing about, not the evil biblical manifestations of the same name.

Completely agree with this, Rosella, thanks. Happy holidays!

[Rosella]

^ You too, Pcdunn, and everyone!

[Pcdunn]

Yes, that was what I was trying to get at by mentioning "other interpretations" in my first post in this thread. (Just can't go back and forth with copied links and material to the same post on an iPad, so ended up with a series of them.)
Thanks for the quoted information, Elamarna-- Season's Greetings!

[Pcdunn]

Well...

Seems to be nothing more than calling n families to bring the kiddy winkles along to the parade and show, and maybe even spend a few p.

But. Guess that's too simple old Pierre and his data.

I think Pierre may be "simple" in a different way, even if his theories aren't! Merry Christmas, Gut!

[Rosella]

The Gog and Magog figures here in the Royal Arcade in Melbourne are Victorian but modelled directly on the effigies carved in the early 18th century which guarded the Guildhall in London and were destroyed in the Blitz in the Second World War.

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/melbournephotos/ig/Melbourne-Street-Photos/Gog-and-Magog--Royal-Arcade.htm

[MsWeatherwax]

With the greatest respect to the senior members here, I feel quite strongly that the board is being trolled.

Congratulations on turning it into an interesting and informative thread on Gogmagog.

[Elamarna]

Ms Weatherwax,

I think you will find that most here will agree with you on that.