DB, SJ & Lusk Letter By The Same Hand?

[Bridewell]

Both?

Thanks for that, Bridewell. Regardless of whether it was a hoax or from the killer (or possibly both), I find it curious that he wanted to point the finger of blame at the Irish.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Apologies for a duplicated post. I meant to amend the original, but obviously made a mistake somewhere. I'm trying to get my head round the idea of the FH being "a hoax or from the killer or both. Doesn't it have to be one or the other? I think the "Irish" aspect is questionable. Modern readers interpret the opening address as "Sor", but, given the writer's habit of ending words with a superfluous up-stroke, it could equally well be "Sir". "Prasarved" could just be another deliberate mis-spelling.

Best Wishes, Bridewell.

[mariab]

Modern readers interpret the opening address as "Sor", but, given the writer's habit of ending words with a superfluous up-stroke, it could equally well be "Sir".

Among many, I too agree about it possibly being “Sir“.

You can delete one of your double posts, you know.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Tom et al.

Roslyn D'Onston was certainly a student of legends, lore, and magic. His "Lovers on the Bridge" story was a recycled traditional tale.



"I'm not a Yid.... I'm not a Mick...."

Messing with the heads of the authorities.

This playfulness, the intent to get a rise out of the authorities, might indicate hoax more than it signals that the communications were from the killer.

As I have remarked before, it's conceivable that the killer's only message was in the murders themselves.

And we know that D'Onston, much like Albert Bachert, inserted himself in the case at various points. He could have been, like Walter Sickert, just someone who was fascinated with the case and wanted to get involved somehow, a busybody and not the killer.

Best regards

Chris

Hi Chris
Interesting point about D'Onston. Does he not also fit the desription of the man who entered the shop and asked about Lusk's address?

[Abby Normal]

Hi, Tom.

Like Abby, I too think the FH may welol have been sent by the killer. It has a casual arrogance which none of the other letters possess in my view.
The rest seem to be trying to second-guess what the killer would write. The FH shoots from the hip, so to speak. As well as the seemingly deliberate mis-spellings it is apparent that an attempt has been made to disguise the hand-writing - the same letter is formed in different ways at different points. Logical conclusions from deliberate mis-spelling and a disguised hand? The writer could spell perfectly well and he believed his handwriting might be recognised. Like Abby (again!) I'm not convinced by the medical students' hoax argument. Medical students had a great deal to lose by such conduct and little or nothing to gain.

Best Wishes, Bridewell

Hi Bridewell
I like your "casual arrogance" observation. Also, unlike many of the other letters, the author does not try to copycat with the Jack the Ripper signature or other similarities (HaHa etc.)of the Dear Boss letters.

[Abby Normal]

To the original point of the thread.


I dont see any similarities between the DB letters and FH (except for their originality and "casual arrogance"). But one thing has always struck between the similarity between th DB letters and the "Winters coming" (for lack of a better name) letter that i beleive is the last item in the WCM file and was received in 1896. The police eventually dismissed it(after carefully examining it and noting many similarities, even in handwriting) as a probable hoax, but I am not so sure.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris
Interesting point about D'Onston. Does he not also fit the desription of the man who entered the shop and asked about Lusk's address?

Might or might not match D'Onston's description. Not sure about that although I know it has been said. But "prasarved" in the From Hell letter also uncannily matches the word "preserve" in D'Onston's October 16, 1888 letter to the City of London Police. He informs them that he is presently convalescing but if they they could preserve the letter for such a time as he would feel well enough to visit them.

Best regards

Chris

[Pontius2000]

I read that there was a letter that started off "say boss, you seem rare frightened" where the handwriting matched the writing of the FH letter. I cannot find an image of this letter and I started a thread some time ago and got no response.

Either way, I've now convinced myself that JTR didn't write any letters, so I guess it doesn't matter to me now.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Pontius. A few days before receiving the 'From hell' letter, Lusk received a postcard which I dubbed the 'box of toys' postcard. No image at all exists of it today, but the men of the WVC and the Evening News felt it was in the same hand. Incidentally, Lusk received another letter, but because it was in a different hand, never gets talked about.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Bridewell]

Ha Ha

Hi Bridewell
I like your "casual arrogance" observation. Also, unlike many of the other letters, the author does not try to copycat with the Jack the Ripper signature or other similarities (HaHa etc.)of the Dear Boss letters.

I don't know if it's sub-conscious imitation or something, but when I worked in that environment I recall noticing that a lot of criminals with mental health issues use the "ha ha" expression in written correspondence. I'm far from convinced that JtR wrote the Dear Boss & Saucy Jack but, equally, I'm not entirely happy with the "enterprising journalist" scenario. That suspicion is clearly retrospective. If it were not, I'm sure that collars would have been felt.

[ChrisGeorge]

I don't know if it's sub-conscious imitation or something, but when I worked in that environment I recall noticing that a lot of criminals with mental health issues use the "ha ha" expression in written correspondence. I'm far from convinced that JtR wrote the Dear Boss & Saucy Jack but, equally, I'm not entirely happy with the "enterprising journalist" scenario. That suspicion is clearly retrospective. If it were not, I'm sure that collars would have been felt.

Hi Bridewell

I think the "enterprising journalist" explanation proved an easy answer for the police officials to show that, in retrospect, they were really in control of the situation, and that they knew all along that the letters were hoaxes, which is not indicated by the actions of Scotland Yard at the time.

Now, Dear Boss might indeed have been a journalistic invention, just as "Leather Apron" seems to have been, but whether it was the accused Bulling/Moore axis that was responsible for Dear Boss is another question entirely. If Bulling and/or Moore were provably the author of Dear Boss, isn't it reasonable to suppose they would have been prosecuted for interfering with the case?

Best regards

Chris

[Abby Normal]

Hi Bridewell

I think the "enterprising journalist" explanation proved an easy answer for the police officials to show that, in retrospect, they were really in control of the situation, and that they knew all along that the letters were hoaxes, which is not indicated by the actions of Scotland Yard at the time.

Now, Dear Boss might indeed have been a journalistic invention, just as "Leather Apron" seems to have been, but whether it was the accused Bulling/Moore axis that was responsible for Dear Boss is another question entirely. If Bulling and/or Moore were provably the author of Dear Boss, isn't it reasonable to suppose they would have been prosecuted for interfering with the case?

Best regards

Chris

Totally agree. And if someone from the CNA had written the letter, presumably to stir up interest or for some gain for the CNA, why would they hold the letter back several days before sending to the police and would they really use the excuse for waiting that they thought it was a "joke" if they really knew it was a hoax?

[lynn cates]

Bulling

Hello Chris, Abby. You both make some great points.

Have either of you seen the Bulling letter to Dolly Williamson in which the DB is presented and thought a joke? That is NOT the same hand as the DB. But I think I've seen that hand before.

Cheers.
LC

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Chris, Abby. You both make some great points.

Have either of you seen the Bulling letter to Dolly Williamson in which the DB is presented and thought a joke? That is NOT the same hand as the DB. But I think I've seen that hand before.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lyn

Yes indeed I have seen the letter. I would agree that the letter doesn't appear to be in the same hand as Dear Boss and the Saucy Jacky postcard, although such assessments are in the eye of the beholder, and it has become commonplace for theorists to see similarities in various samples of handwriting.

All the best

Chris

[Bridewell]

I Haven't!

Hello Chris, Abby. You both make some great points.

Have either of you seen the Bulling letter to Dolly Williamson in which the DB is presented and thought a joke? That is NOT the same hand as the DB. But I think I've seen that hand before.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

Are you able to be a little more explicit? I haven't seen the letter to which you refer. Are you able to point me towards a facsimile so that I can see what you're hinting at?

regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

sources

Hello Bridewell. Do you have "Letters from Hell" or "Ultimate Companion"? Both cover letters are published there.

Cheers.
LC