The 9th november 1889 letter

[Sister Hyde]

The Metropolitan police received a letter on the first anniversary of Kelly's murder, the one written in 77 verses, and it was immediatly discarded as an hoax. Anyhow I was wondering if the writter was ever identified? because I still find this letter very disturbing and the fact that author went to so much trouble to actually compose the poem and send it to the police seems very strange to me, it is very hard to make an opinion about this letter.

[Nemo]

Hi Sister Hyde

The writer certainly has it in for Forbes Winslow

Terry Lynch's analysis appears to have been made with no knowledge of Forbes Winslow at all which greatly affects its relevancy

There are a number of points worthy of comment, not least of which is the significant date it was posted

It stands out for me because, among other things, it does not continue banal traits shown in other hoax letters, such as threats to do more murders, threats to move location, or inane hints at cannabilism

In fact, if you weed out the details, it forms a picture of a man who would fit a modern profile of the Ripper

I would be interested to hear from you why you think it hints at the writer being blackmailed

[Marlowe]

A pair of Jacks?

In this letter, a poor, fair-skinned Pole (sounds good so far), who claims to be Jack, accuses GWB of ANIMAL TORTURE! (nice guys, these two!)

Always thought this seemed like the real deal. You can even sense the writer's blood pressure rising as he wrote it! Quite explosive. Hoax or not, pretty chilling stuff.

Marlowe

[Nemo]

Hi Marlowe

In my reading of the letter, the writer disputes Forbes Winslow's stories about GWB

The man he says cuts the throat of animals is a different person

The reference to a "Polish knacker rather fair" appears to be relating the theory at the time of who may have committed the Kelly murder

Indeed, later in the poem the writer states that a policeman told him it was done by a "knacker"

A knacker is a horse slaughterer for anyone unfamiliar with the term

Regards

Nemo

[Marlowe]

Hi Nemo,

Thanks for your reply, but I would have to say I disagree with you on, well, everything :-)

The writer is saying that GWB is not Jack -- he is!

He is saying that Winslow is wrong -- 'it's not that rich guy' -- 'it's me, the poor guy with no money!' He wants to get the credit.

"Done by a Polish Knacker rather fair".

This "Polish Knacker" reference has nothing to do with a policeman or any theory. In fact, the policeman told him it was done by a "Knocker in the night", not "knacker" as you argued. As to his allegation that GWB committed animal torture, it's pretty clear that he is referring to GWB for a number of reasons, the least of which is his hint that man's teeth were probably false!

But hey, you could right, my wife says I'm wrong about 10 times a day.

Marlowe

[Nemo]

Hi Marlowe

The writer is saying that GWB is not Jack -- he is!

He is saying that Winslow is wrong -- 'it's not that rich guy' -- 'it's me, the poor guy with no money!' He wants to get the credit.

I agree

This "Polish Knacker" reference has nothing to do with a policeman or any theory. In fact, the policeman told him it was done by a "Knocker in the night", not "knacker" as you argued. As to his allegation that GWB committed animal torture, it's pretty clear that he is referring to GWB for a number of reasons, the least of which is his hint that man's teeth were probably false!

Possible, but in my opinion the man whom the writer met and who gave him a treat and cut the throat of a dog is not GWB

Here's the relevant transcription which you or others are more than welcome to dispute...

At Finsbury, St Pauls hard near,
I never dost the rents are too dear,
Whitechapel High St hard near my home-
I always do my work alone,
Some months hard gone near Finsbury Sqre,
An eccentric man lived with an unmarried pair-
Mad on Vivisection (the cutting up of animals) He gave one a treat,
He would get hold of a dog or cat for a joke,
With one cut of the knife sever its throat,
He was very dark, teeth (if new) pocked mark'd, disease on nose I did him meet
The tale is false there never was a lad,
Who wrote essays on women bad


I'm not sure if you've seen the original scans Marlowe but the "o" in knocker, as transcribed in "Letters from Hell" is debatable and certainly looks more like an "a" to me, though I admit the possibility that you and SPE/Skinner may be correct

However, why would a policeman suspect a "knocker" rather than a "knacker"?

Here's my transcription of the relevant passage...

The Miller's Court murder a disgusting affair
Done by a Polish Knacker rather fair
The morn (of the morrow) I went to the place-
Had a shine but left in haste,
I spoke to a policeman who saw the sight,
And informed me it was done by a Knacker in the night.

[Marlowe]

Hi Nemo

Why do you believe that the dark man with false teeth is NOT GWB?

[Nemo]

Well, partly because Forbes Winslow's/Callaghans claims in regard to GWB were investigated and found to be groundless

Much of the original testimony against GWB was retracted/denied at a later date

GWB appears to be a respectable citizen

The writer of the letter is describing a real person who cut a dog's throat - that's not GWB in my opinion

Regards

Nemo

[Marlowe]

Okay, I understand, and thanks for answering my question, Nemo.

[Sister Hyde]

Hi Sister Hyde

The writer certainly has it in for Forbes Winslow

Terry Lynch's analysis appears to have been made with no knowledge of Forbes Winslow at all which greatly affects its relevancy

There are a number of points worthy of comment, not least of which is the significant date it was posted

It stands out for me because, among other things, it does not continue banal traits shown in other hoax letters, such as threats to do more murders, threats to move location, or inane hints at cannabilism

In fact, if you weed out the details, it forms a picture of a man who would fit a modern profile of the Ripper

I would be interested to hear from you why you think it hints at the writer being blackmailed

I'm sorry I didn't get much time lately and got lost reading all the threads I've missed in the other sections. This letter stood out of the rest i thought, and I'm not convinced the writer was our man, however he might have had a clue. The writer is always talking about a man who thinks he's rich and makes fun of him and that this man knows that he kills. I don't have the poem under my eyes, i gonna have to wit for tonight to check the exact verses.

[Nemo]

Anytime Marlowe

I have a penchant for this letter and have transcribed it a number of times as a lot of the words are contentious

However, on close study, IMO, none of the disputed words alter the flow or apparent meaning of the text in any significant manner except prostitution/destitution which, in the original text is actually underlined

The page sequence in Terry Lynch's book is incorrect and Stewart Evans has revised his opinion on a few of the words that appear in the transcription of the poem "Letters from Hell"

At one time I thought this a unique text but it does have a precedent from 1888 and it emulates features from the letter from "Jack the Ripper's Pal"

Note that in the first few lines the writer of this poem claims to be writing for the first time

Here's one of my posts from JtRForums which contains my most recent transcription

The lines are separated into the pages

Bangor St is significant because there were opportunities there for East Enders to gain a working passage abroad on a ship among other things...

----------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a transcription, though there are still some disputable words

ie
Shotlog/Shortly
Frank/Funk/Flunk
Belgavian/Belgarian

...and probably more

"The whorish women and them thin" should end with a word rhyming with kill so the last two words are debatable

Some options are...

Their thrill
Them I kill

...and similar, though the above are obviously not solutions

"...he gave one a treat" could read "...he gave me a treat"

I'm not sure how the word "spark" relates to him being tired and trying to escape

Although there is an attempt to utilise various punctuation marks, these are often used erroneously and capitalisation of some letters are also erroneous

Some letters are overly elaborate such as the "L" in London and some of the capital "F"s

IMO some of the letters are formed to emulate some of those in previous Ripper letters, such as the D, B and R and of course the letter is addressed to "Dear Boss"


30 Bangor St Novr 8/89

Dear Boss
My finest shot to justify myself I now fire,
You will see by this that I am not a liar,
Funk, stupid Fool, believes me to be insane,
His next shotlog will be that "I'm tame
In the papers you sometimes see-
Letters written by him, but none by me,
He declares an accomplice is concerned,
That he has to prove and learn-
He describes my complexion, dark with good looks,
Tells the public he has my boots,
Togs 8 suits, many of hats I wear,
And people at me often stare.
Those spots are bully dogs and not fair,
The true spots I pack'd 2 pairs in High St,
To pay rents, buy food (no gin) but meats.
The togs have I 2 suits both dark and blue overcoats.
Hard felt hat, and blue ruff on my throat,
Long hair, no beard and none on chin-
Do neither smoke, swill, or touch gin.

At Finsbury, St Pauls hard near,
I never dost the rents are too dear,
Whitechapel High St hard near my home-
I always do my work alone,
Some months hard gone near Finsbury Sqre,
An eccentric man lived with an unmarried pair-
Mad on Vivisection (the cutting up of animals) He gave one a treat,
He would get hold of a dog or cat for a joke,
With one cut of the knife sever its throat,
He was very dark, teeth (if new) pocked mark'd, disease on nose I did him meet
The tale is false there never was a lad,
Who wrote essays on women bad
I'm not a flash Belgarian swell-
Altho, self taught I can write and spell,
The Miller's Court murder a disgusting affair
Done by a Polish Knacker rather fair
The morn (of the morrow) I went to the place-
Had a shine but left in haste,
I spoke to a policeman who saw the sight,
And informed me it was done by a Knacker in the night.

I told the man you should try and catch him,
Say another word Old Chap I'll you run in.
Frank old Donkey, say he can me catch:
He would soon find in me his match,
The detectives of London are all blind;
They know they cannot me search and find.
Flunk you should a spark make-
He would soon be tired and try to escape-
Operations will begin this month again.
Despatch the police and good strong men-
Whitechapel alone is the place,
The man is keen, quick, and leaves no trace-
My blood boils and with indignation rages,
To perpitrate more bloody outrages-,
Prostitution against which I desperately fight,
(To) destroy the filthy hideous whores of the night,
Dejected, lost, Cast down, ragged, worn and thin,
Frequenters of Theatres, Music Halls and drinkers of Hellish gin.
My Knifes are sharp and very keen,
Determined I swear what I mean,

The swellish flashaway TecKs I very often see
Treating whores and asking them to tea.
One night hard gone I did a policeman meet-
Treated and walked with him down High St,
The letter addressed to 22 Hammersmith Road-
Was written by some vulgar lying toad,
Old Funk, thinks me a flashaway swell-
A first rate man and in a fine house I dwell.
A fourpenny doss I have at a Common East End Dosshouse
And do not dine on aristocratic grouse,
When I by luck some browns and bobs do make-
Sometime early, but at others very late,
He thinks a large fortune I have got,
And loves to ridicule and me mock,
He well knows the reason that I kill,
The whorish women and them thin,
Money (of which) Sir, I have none;
But I detest ridicule of my sarcastic plans and fun.

J Ripper

I will write more in a few days

[Nemo]

Apologies, my memory failed me a bit

The precedent from 1888 I mentioned is the letter from "Jack the Ripper's Pal" and the similarities are my own perception only

I think this letter stands out from other "typical" Ripper letters in appearing to be an apparently authentic and detailed "confession", as does the 1889 poem

There are obvious similarities in the "vivisection teacher" type angle

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/pall_mall_gazette/18881126.html

[Sister Hyde]

thanks, then i can compare both.

[Monty]

This letter has always reminded me of the Zodiacs Lord High Executioners song.

Not that either wrote them.

Monty

[Sister Hyde]

the book or the Razor album?