October 6th letter: Who was the witness?

[JTRSickert]

Hello everyone. As some of you may or may not be aware, among the plethora of Ripper letters that was discovered, one of them was dated October 6th, 1888 and the content of the letter is very mysterious. It specifically is threatening a particular individual whom, based on the letter's context, seems to be a witness to one of the murders. The writer says the man is a fool "if you think I didn't see you" and he threatens to cut off the man's ears and send them to his wife if he goes to the police and to "finish you off" if he assists the police in any way. Again, this letter is signed Jack the Ripper. Now, I'm not saying this letter is from the actual murderer but it clearly was meant to go to a specific recipient. My question is: who? Since this letter was sent in the wake of the Double Event, the most likely ones would be either Israel Schwartz or Joseph Lawende. There are other possibilities though such as: William Marshall, James Brown, or Joseph Levy. Even though the Chapman murder had occured just under a month before, maybe Albert Cadosch is also a possibility. Does anyone here have an opinion?

P.S. It should be noted that the this letter was postmarked "London NW" and that the writing has a very distinct similarity to the Dear Boss letter.

[JTRSickert]

No one has an opinon?

[perrymason]

No one has an opinon?

Hi JTR,

I would think a reasonable opinion can be formed based on only what you posted regarding the letter.

It was signed Jack the Ripper, Just like Dear Boss and Saucy Jack, the handwriting I understand was very similar to those 2 letters and we have published accounts of the witnesses that were involved in both slayings the night of the Double Event. That alone should suggest that the same person who wrote the Dear Boss letter and subsequent postcard were one and the same as the author of the Oct 6 letter....and that they were all hoaxes based on some senior police commentary.

But if you want to explore it a bit further....since Israel is obviously seen by Broadshouldered Man, which is the last man seen with Liz....its unlikely it referred to him, or that murder.

And here is some fodder for further exploration....since we have 3 witnesses who see Kate last, it seems odd that he would write as if he was speaking to one person.......but......what if a patrol cop saw something and someone and didnt investigate it....only to find out shortly thereafter that a murder was committed on or near that spot at around the time he looked in. Maybe he didnt report seeing anything as a result.

Best regards JTR

[JTRSickert]

Hi Perry,

I myself personally also don't think the witness referred to in the letter is Schwartz. The reason is because BS man clearly saw Schwartz and vice-versa, which prompted him to call out "Lipski," either to Pipeman or Schwartz himself. And, in the letter, it states "You are a fool if you think I didn't see you," implying that the encounter with the alleged witness was brief. Therefore, I personally believe the witness intended as the recipient was either Lawende or Joseph Levy. Lawende said Eddowes's back was to him, so the alleged murderer would have been facing Lawende's direction .Another thing is, if Levy was the one who received the letter, perhaps it could account for his supposed evasiveness during the Inquest and further interviews. Perhaps he was afraid harm would come to either him or his wife.

While I am not saying the letter was written by the murderer, why would someone (assuming it was the same author of the Dear Boss letter, implicating a journalist) write to a witness rather than the police or another newspaper. The sensationalism had already been achieved with the previous letter and postcard. What possible gain could be acquired by threatening a witness, which I think is going WAY too far.

[Howard Brown]

JT

You know my opinion already.

I think the October 6th letter is noteworthy for the writing that appears off to the side as writing on the Dear Boss letter appears.

Oh,to be able to know if the author of the missive was oblivious to the Daily Telegraph reproduction of DB on October 2nd...or the way the Met placed reproductions in most of their police stations !

[JTRSickert]

Indeed Howard, indeed....

I'm compiling a list of letters which, in my opinion, have a possibility of being from the killer. Now, before an alarm bell starts to go off in your head, keep calm. i'm not another Patty Cornwell who says practically every letter is from JTR. I do believe the majority of them are fake. But, we all know serials sometimes do send them out. So, I'm checking off the ones I think have a POSSIBILITY (not "likely," not "probably") of coming from the murderer.

This letter, among soem others, are among them. I will make a blog when I have the list completed and it will include the reasons why I personally think it possible it came from the murderer

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
There are three letters that are intresting, all have headings on her majestys service, and are posted between 9th-12th november 1888.
The first comes across as the typical letter imitating a common man, when quite obviously not.
The second written in huge capital letters, actually states that none of the letters before are his, but as the name Jack the Ripper has come about , he will do his best to live up to it.
The Third signed intrestingly'' Mathematician' attempts to assist police by giving an explanation why they should look for a tailor.
So what do we have.
These three letters dated on the 9th, 10th , 12th November, are the only letters to have the addressee 'On her Majestys service' out of all of them.
The first indicates a madman, complete with bad spelling.
The second a desire not to be caught.
The third gives an insight to a person, who likes to solve puzzles, and because of this the nickname Mathematician is used, this being the type of person who might leave clues during his murderous spree.?
Regards Richard.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi JTR,

This letter has been discussed in depth in earlier threads. Perhaps they've disappeared with the crashes? Anyway, we know the recipient of the letter was from the 'double event', and the information about him (that he had a wife, possibly his address) appeared in the press. This would include Schwartz, Lawende, and Packer. If the recipient were Schwartz, and Best did in fact concoct the 'Dear Boss' letter series, then it would be likely that Best (or his alleged 'provincial colleague') was the man who personally interviewed Schwartz. Of the three witnesses, Matthew Packer would certainly have been the easiest for anyone to locate, and he received by far the most press in October.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious]

Indeed Howard, indeed....

I'm compiling a list of letters which, in my opinion, have a possibility of being from the killer. Now, before an alarm bell starts to go off in your head, keep calm. i'm not another Patty Cornwell who says practically every letter is from JTR. I do believe the majority of them are fake. But, we all know serials sometimes do send them out.

Another thread made a reasonably good case to show that the killings did follow what was printed in the newspapers at the time.

If so, it would seem likely that JtR would follow with letters also.

Which means he was not illiterate.

curious

[curious]

On Her Majestys Service

Hi,
'On her Majestys service'

Hi, Richard,

Please enlighten me about what this means.

And a tailor? Was there ever in effort in that direction that you know?

Thanks,

curious

[DVV]

Hi, Richard,

Please enlighten me about what this means.

And a tailor? Was there ever in effort in that direction that you know?

Thanks,

curious

Hi Curious,

A pity ! - that Jack, daring as he was, never dared to go to the station and get back the thimble he lost in Mitre Square.

Amitiés,
David