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Why Lusk letter could be genuine

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  • erobitha
    replied
    Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

    Hi Jay,

    Thanks for the reply. I would be interested in who you have in mind as a suspect, and why, if you are happy to share.

    Cheers, George
    Hi George.

    I missed this originally.

    My suspect is James Maybrick based on the watch and not the diary, and what I deem quite a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence.

    The minute I mention my suspect, I find many people switch off and disengage, so sometimes it's better to debate the points generically without throwing my candidate into the mix.

    Hope that helps.

    Regards,

    Jay

    Leave a comment:


  • GBinOz
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    Hi George,

    Thanks for this interesting perspective.

    Of course I have a suspect in mind but, I am happy to park that for now in order to address your thoughts.

    For me, the deliberate mis-spellings are a big clue that the writer was not as uneducated as they wanted the reader to believe. When you consider the writer kept the silent K in knife in "From Hell" and spelt "Pathological" perfectly on the Openshaw envelope, I can't help but feel these behaviours mirror each other. Now, the handwriting itself is not an exact match, but it is fair to say both have been written to try and give the impression of an erratic mind. Again, a link. The fact he signs off as JtR in Openshaw but not in "From Hell" could quite simply be him adopting the moniker and being comfortable with it by the time he pens the Openshaw letter. As you also highlighted, these are specific individuals. Not police. Not press. However, both men appeared in newspapers.

    I feel the person was the same man who wrote both, and the tone of gloating in both letters is a clear sign to me that this person wants Lusk and Openshaw to be genuinely intimidated.

    I struggle with the idea that a disgruntled medical student would go to such extreme lengths, but it could be possible. However, these are definitely actions in tune with a narcissistic psychopath serial killer.

    These letters are hugely about ego.
    Hi Jay,

    Thanks for the reply. I would be interested in who you have in mind as a suspect, and why, if you are happy to share.

    Cheers, George

    Leave a comment:


  • erobitha
    replied
    Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

    Hi Jay,

    Thank you for the link. I found your blog to be interesting, and thought provoking.

    The fact that the From Hell letter was delivered to Lusk (and not a news agency), and NOT signed Jack the ripper, has set me wondering as to what its purpose may have been. My first thought is that it may have been sent by a disgruntled member of the vigilance force as a protest against the management policies of Lusk. The police whistle that was heard at Berner St before Lamb's arrival originated, IMO, from a member of the vigilance force - Isaacs (Kozebrodsky) or Jacobs, that was present at the IWEC on the night when Stride's body was discovered. Membership of a vigilance committee would be a good cover and provide intelligence not available to the general public.

    I can't say that I see a similarity of penmanship between the Lusk letter and the Openshaw letter. However, once again it was not set to a news agency, but was signed Jack the Ripper. I suspect that the postscript was some sort of jibe, like "you think you're so clever, but you're not" against the scientific analysis. I would not be adverse to a suggestion that a student subject to the oversight of London Hospital doctors might have been prompted to conduct such a protest.

    Did you form any conclusions from your analysis?

    Cheers, George
    Hi George,

    Thanks for this interesting perspective.

    Of course I have a suspect in mind but, I am happy to park that for now in order to address your thoughts.

    For me, the deliberate mis-spellings are a big clue that the writer was not as uneducated as they wanted the reader to believe. When you consider the writer kept the silent K in knife in "From Hell" and spelt "Pathological" perfectly on the Openshaw envelope, I can't help but feel these behaviours mirror each other. Now, the handwriting itself is not an exact match, but it is fair to say both have been written to try and give the impression of an erratic mind. Again, a link. The fact he signs off as JtR in Openshaw but not in "From Hell" could quite simply be him adopting the moniker and being comfortable with it by the time he pens the Openshaw letter. As you also highlighted, these are specific individuals. Not police. Not press. However, both men appeared in newspapers.

    I feel the person was the same man who wrote both, and the tone of gloating in both letters is a clear sign to me that this person wants Lusk and Openshaw to be genuinely intimidated.

    I struggle with the idea that a disgruntled medical student would go to such extreme lengths, but it could be possible. However, these are definitely actions in tune with a narcissistic psychopath serial killer.

    These letters are hugely about ego.

    Leave a comment:


  • Holmes' Idiot Brother
    replied
    If any of the letters were genuine, I believe it was certainly the From Hell letter. And I feel the kidney is genuine, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • GBinOz
    replied
    Originally posted by erobitha View Post
    I tend to think the Lusk letter is genuine. Here is a blog post I wrote on it in 2021:
    https://jayhartley.com/letters-from-hell/
    Hi Jay,

    Thank you for the link. I found your blog to be interesting, and thought provoking.

    The fact that the From Hell letter was delivered to Lusk (and not a news agency), and NOT signed Jack the ripper, has set me wondering as to what its purpose may have been. My first thought is that it may have been sent by a disgruntled member of the vigilance force as a protest against the management policies of Lusk. The police whistle that was heard at Berner St before Lamb's arrival originated, IMO, from a member of the vigilance force - Isaacs (Kozebrodsky) or Jacobs, that was present at the IWEC on the night when Stride's body was discovered. Membership of a vigilance committee would be a good cover and provide intelligence not available to the general public.

    I can't say that I see a similarity of penmanship between the Lusk letter and the Openshaw letter. However, once again it was not set to a news agency, but was signed Jack the Ripper. I suspect that the postscript was some sort of jibe, like "you think you're so clever, but you're not" against the scientific analysis. I would not be adverse to a suggestion that a student subject to the oversight of London Hospital doctors might have been prompted to conduct such a protest.

    Did you form any conclusions from your analysis?

    Cheers, George

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffHamm
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    Way back in 2008, I found this song called "The Upper Denton Hornpipe", which imho was almost certainly the inspiration for the Openshaw ditty:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	upper-denton-hornpipe.jpg
Views:	338
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	845160

    The lyrics are:

    Did you ever see the devil with his wooden spade or shovel,
    Did you ever see the devil with his tail cocked out?
    The p'tatoes were so big that the devil couldn't dig,
    So he ran through the fields with his tail cocked out!

    Upper Denton is in Cumbria, England, although I found it in an anthology of sailors' fiddle tunes from Nova Scotia.
    Fun stuff! My kids are both accomplished violinists, so I've sent them a copy of this.

    - Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    English song

    Leave a comment:


  • Lewis C
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

    Brilliant post!

    I thought it had some form of musicality and your post proves it.

    So the author was inspired by a Scottish song it seems?

    Any suspects with links to Scotland?

    Bury, but I imagine you're looking for someone with links to Scotland before the murders rather than after.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (character) - Wikipedia

    Dr J (Henry G Kill) is Gull

    Mr H is Henry G Sutton

    Inspector Newcomen is Major Henry Smith

    Sir Danvers Carew is several clues,however based on one of Gull's clients who died from a chloral hydrate overdose

    Soho Square,see Sutton Street

    the trampled girl,Mary Ann Kelly

    Gull resides at 8 Finsbury Square,Sutton at 9 Finsbury Square

    Just for starters ..... have fun
    Last edited by DJA; 01-12-2025, 09:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Openshaw took over as Curator of the Pathology Museum from Sutton in 1887 and became his Boss

    Leave a comment:


  • GBinOz
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    Way back in 2008, I found this song called "The Upper Denton Hornpipe", which imho was almost certainly the inspiration for the Openshaw ditty:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	upper-denton-hornpipe.jpg
Views:	334
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	845160

    The lyrics are:

    Did you ever see the devil with his wooden spade or shovel,
    Did you ever see the devil with his tail cocked out?
    The p'tatoes were so big that the devil couldn't dig,
    So he ran through the fields with his tail cocked out!

    Upper Denton is in Cumbria, England, although I found it in an anthology of sailors' fiddle tunes from Nova Scotia.
    Hi Sam,

    Thank you for that information. I agree that this musical composition probably inspired the message, but I suspect, for whatever reason, it was aimed at one of the doctors that examined the kidney - Openshaw or Sutton.

    Cheers, George

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rookie Detective
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    Way back in 2008, I found this song called "The Upper Denton Hornpipe", which imho was almost certainly the inspiration for the Openshaw ditty:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	upper-denton-hornpipe.jpg
Views:	338
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	845160

    The lyrics are:

    Did you ever see the devil with his wooden spade or shovel,
    Did you ever see the devil with his tail cocked out?
    The p'tatoes were so big that the devil couldn't dig,
    So he ran through the fields with his tail cocked out!

    Upper Denton is in Cumbria, England, although I found it in an anthology of sailors' fiddle tunes from Nova Scotia.
    Brilliant post!

    I thought it had some form of musicality and your post proves it.

    So the author was inspired by a Scottish song it seems?

    Any suspects with links to Scotland?


    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
    O have you seen the devle with his mikerscope and scalpul a-lookin at a kidney with a slide cocked up

    Is this a cryptic clue? To whom could it be alluding?
    Way back in 2008, I found this song called "The Upper Denton Hornpipe", which imho was almost certainly the inspiration for the Openshaw ditty:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	upper-denton-hornpipe.jpg
Views:	334
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	845160

    The lyrics are:

    Did you ever see the devil with his wooden spade or shovel,
    Did you ever see the devil with his tail cocked out?
    The p'tatoes were so big that the devil couldn't dig,
    So he ran through the fields with his tail cocked out!

    Upper Denton is in Cumbria, England, although I found it in an anthology of sailors' fiddle tunes from Nova Scotia.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Would it have been such an instrument as a medical man uses for post-mortem examinations? - The ORDINARY post-mortem case perhaps does not contain such a weapon.Mr. George Baxter Phillips,​ divisional-surgeon of police​ at Chapman's inquest regarding the knife.

    Leave a comment:


  • GBinOz
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    Click image for larger version

Name:	HGS Mikerscope.jpg
Views:	252
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	845106 Guess who's
    Dave,

    I was opening a door for you....go for it.

    Cheers, George

    Leave a comment:

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