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>Which assumes he could tell the difference. Sure . . . if he finds a bottle marked "Abbey Normal" [Stop that!--Ed.] "Female Kidney"--but the problem is it was not properly preserved. So he did not get it from a post-mortem room.
Hmmmmmm, thats an interesting point. And from my limited experience in working in a hospital lab connected to post mortems the organs and their owners are very strictly cross referenced and the porters never really got their hands on something like this. Of course it could be different then.
What's the evidence for bad preservation? If its not from a post mortem where the hell he get it from!? Murder for a hoax seems a bit extreme!
>Right . . . anyways, the point to all of my blather is that the dudes back then could not tell as much about the kidney. How could they know if the "ginny kidney" with "Bright's Disease" was the same set for Eddowes? Answer: they could not.
>Now, again, that does not mean it was NOT her kidney; one just cannot conclude it is based on the information extant.
Its certainly doesnt identify it as her kidney. It would be interesting to chart exactly who handled it from the time Lusk recieved it. So we can see if anyone could have trimmed part of the artery off. Of course Jack could have before he sent it (if he did) but then the account of the remaining artery would be bogus.
>Yes. I would not be surprised if people looked at the fatty to cirrhotic livers and concluded the two were connected. You are correct about her state of health.
Given the views of the period yes.
>No problem! I got excited too, because certainly what is described fits the expectations. However--to my recollection of Sudgen because my sources are not handy--there were reports early enough that a hoaxer could figure it out. Does not mean he did, but it leaves an "out."
Yes, my intuition here is based on 'kidney = great hoax job (maybe)', 'letter = rubbish hoax (maybe)' therefore somethings odd here, why waste ones effort if your not going to follow through a do a complete hoax...
>Then he should have gotten it correct. However, the kidney was stored in the wrong medium for hospital post mortem. Regarding spelling, it could be a case of someone trying to fake uneducated spelling without realizing the more common mistakes. Not saying it is, just that I am suspicious.
Yes it could, but then why write it in such an obviously formal and clerkish style, 'Sur' and 'signed', and that 'sur' is an absurd deliberate typo for a hoaxer, though I've seen similar phonetic spellings in non English speakers.
It makes me suspicious in opposite direction.
>To which . . . someone could claim he intentionally stored it in the wrong medium . . . and we are rushing down trails of assumptions that can only lead to the Masons and Lee Harvey Oswald!
No he worked for the Mob, they werent around
)
>I do not know . . . we are still questioning it. Sudgen regards it as "possibly" genuine--he notes the arguments for and against. To my Newbie Knowledge, it is considered the most "probable"--which means 27 posters are going to descend upon me to denounce that!!
Its easier to criticize than to build a case, lesser minds trying to be clever will always take that route
>It reminds me, a bit, of a few Trolls I have encountered on OTHER BOARDS who try to pretend to be ethnic and write in an "accent" which people do not actually do when they write in a foreign language. I will not recreate it since examples tend to be racist Trolls, but I think you get the drift.
Sure.
>Which . . . goes back to the whole graffito argument--was it legitimate--a lot of people feel it was--and was Jack trying to distract or make a statement.
I doubt he wrote the graffiti, sounds like typical racist slurs (though maybe with a grain of truth this time). The idea it was 'fresh', whatever that means, was pure speculation. But I do think he stopped by it for some reason, and find the idea that it was 'blurred' and the apron was dropped beneath it a bit suggestive. Did he try to erase it, but get interupted? Thats another post tho...
>With both--Lusk letter and graffito--the thing that gets me is that he did not write again. I would think that a serial killer like Jack, who is willing to taunt authorities and a head of a "vigilance committee" would want to keep writing. That is an assumption, of course! He may have had a bunch of packages with bits of Mary Kelly ready to deliver when the Loch Ness Monster got him!
Maybe he was just amused by the hoaxes, and wanted to have a go himself, to stop the imposters getting the limelight, and prove his letter the 'real one' .
It was a novel idea at the time. By the kelly job I think he was pretty paranoid and wouldnt risk it.
>I rather read that as he is from "Hell' because he is a devil/daemon who resides there and does evil like poke people with pointy sticks and make them listen to country-western music, and who has taken a sabbatical. In other words, I think it is just a boast. If legitimate, the letter is a cocky boast, not a emo "I am ALONE . . . in HELL" sort of letter.
Could be taken either way. Apparently there was a Russian Nihilist group called Hell, its suicide bombers used to disfigure themselves and taunt victims before blowing themselves to bits, made 'al qaeda' look like wussies...
>I am sort of there too. I tend to remain skeptical since it is sooo tempting to believe something from Jack remains. That always leaves the promise that somehow, someway, it can lead to him.
Well even it was from him probably doesnt take us anywhere....
Prowler, the Vigilantee
Hmmmmmm, thats an interesting point. And from my limited experience in working in a hospital lab connected to post mortems the organs and their owners are very strictly cross referenced and the porters never really got their hands on something like this. Of course it could be different then.
What's the evidence for bad preservation? If its not from a post mortem where the hell he get it from!? Murder for a hoax seems a bit extreme!
>Right . . . anyways, the point to all of my blather is that the dudes back then could not tell as much about the kidney. How could they know if the "ginny kidney" with "Bright's Disease" was the same set for Eddowes? Answer: they could not.
>Now, again, that does not mean it was NOT her kidney; one just cannot conclude it is based on the information extant.
Its certainly doesnt identify it as her kidney. It would be interesting to chart exactly who handled it from the time Lusk recieved it. So we can see if anyone could have trimmed part of the artery off. Of course Jack could have before he sent it (if he did) but then the account of the remaining artery would be bogus.
>Yes. I would not be surprised if people looked at the fatty to cirrhotic livers and concluded the two were connected. You are correct about her state of health.
Given the views of the period yes.
>No problem! I got excited too, because certainly what is described fits the expectations. However--to my recollection of Sudgen because my sources are not handy--there were reports early enough that a hoaxer could figure it out. Does not mean he did, but it leaves an "out."
Yes, my intuition here is based on 'kidney = great hoax job (maybe)', 'letter = rubbish hoax (maybe)' therefore somethings odd here, why waste ones effort if your not going to follow through a do a complete hoax...
>Then he should have gotten it correct. However, the kidney was stored in the wrong medium for hospital post mortem. Regarding spelling, it could be a case of someone trying to fake uneducated spelling without realizing the more common mistakes. Not saying it is, just that I am suspicious.
Yes it could, but then why write it in such an obviously formal and clerkish style, 'Sur' and 'signed', and that 'sur' is an absurd deliberate typo for a hoaxer, though I've seen similar phonetic spellings in non English speakers.
It makes me suspicious in opposite direction.
>To which . . . someone could claim he intentionally stored it in the wrong medium . . . and we are rushing down trails of assumptions that can only lead to the Masons and Lee Harvey Oswald!
No he worked for the Mob, they werent around
)>I do not know . . . we are still questioning it. Sudgen regards it as "possibly" genuine--he notes the arguments for and against. To my Newbie Knowledge, it is considered the most "probable"--which means 27 posters are going to descend upon me to denounce that!!
Its easier to criticize than to build a case, lesser minds trying to be clever will always take that route
>It reminds me, a bit, of a few Trolls I have encountered on OTHER BOARDS who try to pretend to be ethnic and write in an "accent" which people do not actually do when they write in a foreign language. I will not recreate it since examples tend to be racist Trolls, but I think you get the drift.
Sure.
>Which . . . goes back to the whole graffito argument--was it legitimate--a lot of people feel it was--and was Jack trying to distract or make a statement.
I doubt he wrote the graffiti, sounds like typical racist slurs (though maybe with a grain of truth this time). The idea it was 'fresh', whatever that means, was pure speculation. But I do think he stopped by it for some reason, and find the idea that it was 'blurred' and the apron was dropped beneath it a bit suggestive. Did he try to erase it, but get interupted? Thats another post tho...
>With both--Lusk letter and graffito--the thing that gets me is that he did not write again. I would think that a serial killer like Jack, who is willing to taunt authorities and a head of a "vigilance committee" would want to keep writing. That is an assumption, of course! He may have had a bunch of packages with bits of Mary Kelly ready to deliver when the Loch Ness Monster got him!
Maybe he was just amused by the hoaxes, and wanted to have a go himself, to stop the imposters getting the limelight, and prove his letter the 'real one' .
It was a novel idea at the time. By the kelly job I think he was pretty paranoid and wouldnt risk it.
>I rather read that as he is from "Hell' because he is a devil/daemon who resides there and does evil like poke people with pointy sticks and make them listen to country-western music, and who has taken a sabbatical. In other words, I think it is just a boast. If legitimate, the letter is a cocky boast, not a emo "I am ALONE . . . in HELL" sort of letter.
Could be taken either way. Apparently there was a Russian Nihilist group called Hell, its suicide bombers used to disfigure themselves and taunt victims before blowing themselves to bits, made 'al qaeda' look like wussies...
>I am sort of there too. I tend to remain skeptical since it is sooo tempting to believe something from Jack remains. That always leaves the promise that somehow, someway, it can lead to him.
Well even it was from him probably doesnt take us anywhere....
Prowler, the Vigilantee
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