Lusk Letter sent to George Lusk of the vigilante committee

[Cap'n Jack]

Lightweight.
Without any doubt whatsoever the female kidney tends to be smaller than the male, the only exception being that a castrated male's kidney may mimic the smaller female kidney.
Perhaps, Sam, in your world, Eddowes was a castrated male in drag?

[Sam Flynn]

Lightweight.

I'm actually not feeling very well, AP, and haven't the energy for a ding-dong with you. Perhaps when I feel better, eh?

Without any doubt whatsoever the female kidney tends to be smaller than the male

Yes, but there's huge variation. Read the research you quoted yesterday. No, better still - brush up on some basic stats and then go back and read it.

Yours recuperatively.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sorry to hear that, Sam.
My suggestion is a fine brandy, mixed equally with Stones ginger wine, no ice, and a spit of elderflower cordial, squeeze a lime into it, and you'll feel lickety split in five minutes.
I wish you well, Sam... always.

[perrymason]

You know,.. we've only touched on the note so far, and some good analysis was proffered, but script and style and grammatical accuracy aside....is it relevant whom the author chose to send this message too...with respect to The Whitechapel Murderer being suspected a local...and what of the missing sign-off?

Is there a familiarity implied perhaps? Like Lusk wouldnt need "clues", or the introduction to the killer. The note starts up like a simple note to George,...and is fairly benign overtly,...albeit with some underlying menace.

Any thoughts? Was this a hoax "joke", hoax "scare", or a note from one local man to another.

Cheers all.

[perrymason]

We don't have the original doctor's notes from the examination of the kidney, so we don't know that. Major Smith later claimed a doctor who examined it said it had Bright's Disease, but Smith also claimed, for example, that the artery attached had been cut in a specific way to match the artery part left in the body, which we know was not true because the kidney's artery had actually been trimmed up.

We also know that Smith said a great many things that turned out to be false.

I realize its an unsubstantiated observation Dan, but with retractions and revisions of opinions, it can be difficult to know who meant what they said...if they said it.

In looking into Nephritis a bit, as Chris said, it is usually a catalyst condition for other diseases, including some affecting kidneys, the heart, and some affecting fertility issues, ... I wonder in Kates case what that Brights Disease might have indicated. I dont think I saw anything that linked the condition with alchohol abuse....as the alledged "ginny kidney" line did.

Is Tony Williams allegation that his "Uncle Jack", John Williams may have aborted a child for Catherine true....does anyone know?

Best regards.

[Supe]

Michael,

For what it is worth, I did a little research today at our local historical society while waiting for my car to be fixed. I began examining the mortuary records for my town from 1875-1890. The town was then just a village of a steady 2,000 or so souls and except for one year when 11 children died of diphtheria in one neighborhood in five weeks, annual deatrhs averaged 50 with little variation.

Anyway, Bright's disease was the primary cause of death flisted on 6.2% of the certificates. The range over the 15 years I got through was a low of 3% and a high of nearly 14%. Of interest as well is that the number of deaths annually attrributed to Bright's rose over the period. Whether this was due to better diagnostic techniques I cannot say. Nor does it include, as mentioned earlier, instances of people dying from other causes with undiagnosed Bright's.

The sample was small, 786, but it would suggest that in a large metropolis like London in 1888 that several people dying with Bright's (and remember, if Kate did manifest Bright's symptoms there were undiagnosed) at roughly the same time was not a longshot by any means.

As for Tony Williams's exercise in ancestor character assassination, it was Polly Nichols, not Kate Eddowes, he alleged was given an abortion by Sir John. You should buy the back issue of Ripper Notes (Oct. 2005 - #24) from Dan and read the article by Jennifer Pegg ("Uncle Jack under the Microscope") in which she thoroughly gaffes and then guts Tony Williams and his embarrassingly bad book. As it was, the Nichols entry was a patent forgery.

Don.

.

[perrymason]

Thanks for that post Don, that type of data is just what I was looking for. Although I clearly expected different results.

It does seem reasonable based on your research that a kidney with signs of Nephritis might have been available on Sept 30th/88 or thereabouts, aside from the one Kate donated non-voluntarily. I do still think that would narrow the potential sources to students or practitioners of surgery, leading one to wonder whether we have indications in other areas of that kind of training....with some mixed medical conclusions on skill and knowledge.

If you ride that train of thought to the next logical stop, youd have to lean towards hoax I would think. I do want this to be meaningful, because there is a certain homey elegance in its simplicity, but you have me back on the fence.

As to Mr Williams, I did read that once, the only Ripper book I read only once, and that how I mistook Kate and Polly. Am I correct in remembering that these two women at times were called Emma? Anyway....I agree with your observations on the injustice of that type of book.

But for myself, I do not rule out organ specific motives in some cases.

Your friend as always, Cheers.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, read the Crippen case in regard to kidneys, fried or grilled.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, read the Crippen case in regard to kidneys, fried or grilled.

Thanks, AP - don't mind if I do. From the trial transcript, my emphasis:

"Taking a person of Mrs. Crippen's age and build, the normal weight of the kidney of a woman like that would vary from 3 to 4 oz.; it might be as much as 4 1/2 oz.; it is subject to considerable variation."

...which is what I've been saying all along. Interesting to note that Dr Pepper (I kid you not) takes into account the woman's build - not quite as precise as measuring her Body Mass Index, perhaps, but good on him.

[Cap'n Jack]

But Dr Pepper never thought it might be a male kidney, did he, Sam?

[Sam Flynn]

Hello AP,

But Dr Pepper never thought it might be a male kidney, did he, Sam?

But then Dr Pepper would have been pretty certain about the sex of the kidney he was examining, he having removed it from the corpse in Crippen's cellar, a corpse in connection with which were found pieces of a woman's cotton knickers, and whose 8" long hair was in curlers.

[Cap'n Jack]

' I think the weight of the kidney in this case was 2 3/4 oz.'

So said, Dr Pepper, and correctly identified it as a woman's kidney.
Though I guess it might have belonged to a dwarf male.
Did Crippen ever murder any male dwarfs, Sam?

[Sam Flynn]

' I think the weight of the kidney in this case was 2 3/4 oz.'

So said, Dr Pepper, and correctly identified it as a woman's kidney.

...of a certain build.

Incidentally, AP, that's very light compared to the data in the sample you posted a while back, even allowing for decomposition. They obviously weren't as well-fed back then.

Though I guess it might have belonged to a dwarf male.

...a child, or a pig.

How much did Openshaw say the Lusk kidney - sorry, Lusk kidney portion - weighed? And where did he record his calibration of same with Eddowes' body-mass index prior to forming his (alleged) opinion?

[Cap'n Jack]

Sam, if you read the transcript you'll find that Dr Pepper freely admits to his confusion about the sexual identity of the bodies he has to identify, and it is only when he get to the kidneys that he reaches a firm conclusion.
That has been my suggestion all along.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, if you read the transcript you'll find that Dr Pepper freely admits to his confusion about the sexual identity of the bodies he has to identify, and it is only when he get to the kidneys that he reaches a firm conclusion.

Only because the kidneys were in "an exceedingly good state of preservation" (his words), AP. In addition, we cannot get away from the fact that Pepper was involved in an investigation where a woman was missing, the remains in question were found in the basement of Dr Crippen's house, there were fragments of a woman's cotton undergarments found with the remains, and the hair was 8" long with curlers in it.

Openshaw received part of a kidney in isolation - no remains, knickers or curlers attached. As we've seen - and as Dr Pepper acknowledges - there is considerable variation in the weight of human kidneys, one needs to take into account the body mass index (or "build") of the (known) donor, and - as the research you posted confirms - there is also a considerable degree of overlap between the weights of male and female kidneys. Furthermore, although I need to confirm this, it makes reasonable sense to suppose that a male child's kidney could weigh as much as an adult woman's.

All that, and pigs besides.